Raya and the Last Dragon - Discussion thread (Contains spoilers)
Lem'me just talk about Raya, or else I'll go crazy. I've been trapped with my thesis for days.
CAUTION: SPOILERS AHEAD
This thread allows spoilers with no censoring. If you wish to watch the movie with a clean slate of mind, I suggest you turn back now.
Also this thread serves as a way to criticize/compliment to the movie. Be open-minded to everyone's opinions, and don't be a jerk. Unless it involves things like racism, hate speech, se.xism and the like. You guys know what I'm talking about x(
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Right! So, Raya and the Last Dragon. Whokay.
I know most of you know what people have said about RatLD. "Sisu's got such a bad design", "It's too fast", "Disney inserted an LGBTQa+ character/s to be progressive", "It's a lamer version of Avatar the Last Airbender", "What the heck is a jackfruit jerky".
So I'll just be talking about my own opinion on it.
How do I rate the movie? Uhhh, 6/10. It's okay, something different, something familiar.
What I liked about it:
- The dragon is shown very often (I love dragons!), which is nice. Dragons in tv and movies don't often get that much screen time because of how hard and expensive it is to animate them. Even if it's their own movie!
- The village of Heart is my favorite place. Reminds me so much of my country where there's lots of coconut trees interspersed with other plants, like pineapples and shrubs. It makes me reminisce of my travels pre-2020.
- Food! Animated food always earns a star from me. Kind of sad there's not that much food other from the soup.
- The giant guy from Spine. I love me giant guys with a soft heart. And I loved his story. Imagine being the last guy of your village, so you gotta act tough and protect your place. And he lost his baby! He also reminds me of the guys from Tangled, you know, the big guys from the Snuggly Duckling tavern.
Alright, so cons. I'm not gonna talk much about the whole design things and what everybody's been saying. Been repeated so many times, and I understand if you guys had enough of it. But there's one thing from the movie that's been bugging me so much.
So you guys know how movies-for-kids work right? Or stories in general. There's always a theme for it. We got Princess and the Frog, which is "Don't be so serious and goal-oriented, and you need to have fun". We got Brave, which is about mother-daughter bonding. We got Meet the Robinsons, "Keep moving forward". We got got Frozen. Let it go.
So for Raya, it's "Trust". Which is a fine thing, but the way the movie handled the theme is just. Yes, it just doesn't sit right with me.
It's a nice lesson they're trying to give, with Sisu going "In order to earn trust, you got to give a little trust". That's very nice, and of course you'd do that as a start of a budding relationship. But what I didn't like, is that it's expected for Raya to give and give and give and GIVE her trust away, and that person repeatedly breaking her trust.
No. No no no you're not supposed to hand out your trust like it's some sort of tissue paper for someone to sneeze into. In this situation, the main antagonist Namaari broke her trust a few times! The first time served as a catalyst of an apocalypse. Second time was her actually killing Sisu.
To earn trust is easy. To EARN BACK the trust you've broken takes a lot more than just "you need to trust me pwease". And the way Namaari "earned" back Raya's trust is when they're backed into a corner, and in that situation, Raya really has no choice but to give the gem to Namaari. I mean, what else can you do when you're surrounded by soul-suckers?
And another thing, I didn't like what Namaari said during their last fight. That Raya was "just as responsible in killing Sisu" as her.
Ex-cuse me? Who's finger was on the trigger? It's like holding a loaded gun, with the safety mode off, shooting someone because their friend was trying to make you NOT shoot the victim, and go "Oh noooo you made me shoot. You're also a murderer!"
I'd actually understand the misfire if it was a bow. You can only hold back the string for so long until you get tired. But her finger was on the trigger, and as a seasoned warrior if you're not really serious about harming someone, merely holding on the handle of the crossbow would be enough as a threat.
Soooo yeah, that's just my two cents into this movie. Would I watch it again? Maybe as video clips on the fun parts. The whole movie? Maybe on very slow days. I still want to buy the Sisu doll and figurine though heeh.
Haha. Yeah I agree with most of this.
I do like that Disney is diverting from their worn out "true love conquers all" themes. Those were getting old. And they were teaching young girls all the wrong things about relationships and how to work through them. I am really enjoying the young, independent, female protagonist thing they have going. Their stories just don't involve romance. And that is valid.
I will post my review later but for now I just wanna poke fun at you and Wolf who basically goes like
"We should make a spoilers thread!"
"Yes let's!"
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"..."
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Ok so My review!
I gave it a 8.7/10 score! I really like it and i walk out of the theather twice really happy! I rooted for the big disney film based around my culture (and have one of the head story being well known Thai Artist) to be well and I'm really happy it did for me. It's a solid fun time BUT! I recognize that I have two big bias when it comes to it being
- As mentioned above, it based of the culture I know so I have a bias and strong emotion conection to it
- I myself haven't seen a good animated movie in the theather for ages. Frozen 2, Incredible 2, How to train your dragon 3, Wreck in Ralph 2 are all not so good and I'm not having a good time in the theather which made this the first movie I have fun watching in the theather since.....Spiderverse which is a Big comparison (Raya have nothing on Spiderverse of course, but still)
Souls I haven't seen it and Wolfwalker....is better than Raya but I haven't seen that one in Theather (seen it on Apple) so my statement is still true.
and that it has flaws. lots of it. a lot I agree with are already mention. Going point by Point my problem with it being
- The dragons are pretty wack. Both in design and in personality (Sorry Sisu fan!) To be their appearance stick out like a sorethumb and took me out of the stroy but I think if Sisu personality is good she might be able to save it---nope. Big part of my second problem came from her and I only start to feel better about her when she somber down a bit (around the point she got the rain power) and it good thing I warmed up to her because by that point I realized "Hey Sisu's design might be the good one" when The band of brothers and sisters dragons appear and I mentally laughing at the pretty boy big brother green dragon...why is he look like an idol? Why are they look so much like MLP together. I defend the desgin when someone said Sisu remind them of MLP prior to the film coming out because I thought they meant Kirin...which is SEA based creature so valid but they're actually really right about it looking like MLP in the endX"D Yeah Sisu and the dragon took 1 solid score away from the movie
-Second point, they balance the joke and serious tone of the film, pretty not great :/ The same film we have big beautiful setting and save the world premise we have boss babies ans Aquafina(Again, sorry) makeing modern joke.
-There are at least one VERY jaringly weird editing. Specificly the part when there is the joke about Sisu eating spicy food and the joke hasn't even land or finish properly yet the scene already faded away to the dramatic music with namaari riding on her cats. It's so jaring that it stick with me and i have to ask my co-worker (Specialist in film editing) on the next day if he felt it for this scene specifically too and he's right "I knew right!? what were they thinking!?" I watched the film twice, that scene made my inner editor cringed twice.
Last which I'm not sure if I should put it in the bads but it is worth mentioning. So the cultural stuff. I think they did my culture decently! If I go point by points there're probably some problem but as of now seeing all those on big screen, on disney film is really freaking cool! I geeking out in the theater at all the detail and cultural stuff I recognize and understand multiple times! all the names and backgrounds and food. But It is worth mentioning that it is a mixture of all SEA culture which are very various and different and a lot of SEAsian especially the one underrepresented aren't happy about it. and I wholeheartedly understand that it's a problem. There's one example being that the Kumandra is based of the mainland SEA and how they're connected to the river but a huge chunk of SEA are islands too and that's the part the film doesn't represent and it would be understandable if they felt alianate. My father even mentioned if Thai are being overrepresent with all the cool stuff we got (Tuktuk, tom yam kung, floating markers, hearts, all the main characters names). If other SEA aren't happy with the film on this matter, it's totally understandable.
at the same time thought having finished the movie though I can see why they went that route.
Because imagine if it's coded or hinted strongly what each clan is suppose to be. then we have a big problem of "Oh now [insert this contry] is a bad guy? [Insert this country] is the benevolent good guy who want all other country to come together? [insert this country] is full of con artists?" and most of all make the message of the film seem like "Hey let's all come together to become one with me :)" which kinda already present in the film in a way if I think too hard about it and that's...kinda yikes??
As for the Trust and the pacing...yeah I can see why that would be a problem to someone. I myself don't feel it. The pacing could be better but I kinda okay with whatwe got I mean yeah... a lot of time the crew just standing around and even joke about "Eh...what we should do" but like Boun and Tong banter with each other well enough. The film did gave them time and quiet moment to reflex multiple times and compare to like HTTYD and Kungfu fu panda (as in the main cast crew not the movie, those two movie are still load better than RAYA) yeah the RAYA crews are good and got lot of things to do and character developement than those two movies (sans Astrid and Tigress)! As for Trust. again those who see it as a problem are valids. I don't personally have any experience with these kind of stuff so It didn't effect me as much and I let it pass but I can imagine it being a not very good message for the one that do. I might even make this mistake in the writing room too of thinking that it will be a good message on paper. I means I like steven universe........ and also actually have a third bias which I will mention soon enough
Okay the specially good stuff
- OST is so hard, it doesn't need to go this hard but it did 11/10 I love James newton howard
- The third bias, An equalent exchange, a perfect balance as Thanos would say, while Sisu took 1 solid score from the movie, Namaari...or Namaari's shoulder and backside put that solid 1 score back in for me. Seriously though she's the best. My friend and sister come to me with the look of understnading and said "Namaari's shoulder" and I, sagely nodded and say " Namaari's shoulder."
I would said it ironically on multiple account that, "Namaari made the movie worth it" because did other movie got Namaari in it? It sure don't. On the more serious note, Design wise, character wise. What a breath of fresh air. She's now my favourite Disney princess and I swear Disney better including her in the line up. Not just her though her story and interaction with Raya is also *chef kisses* that's not straight, harold.
- Found family! Yeah if they handle the character a little better, the hug scene at the end would be better but as someone who's quite okay with the pacing, Hurray that hug scenes at the end! My found family heart is filled!
- Specific scenes that made me really hype and happy: Ta-lung imagenary( the black on read puppet scene in the prolouge). Spines show, all of it, from Raya at the door to Sisu and Namaari holding eye contact that's seriously the best scene from the movie. Namaari vs Raya 3, again right from when Raya marching into fang. The whole third acts and climax are very nice too.
- Us again, the short that air before the movie is also really good. Not paperman good as it did not has that visual but it still made me emotional and cried.
I think it's all come down to wheter you decided to like the movie or not. Like think Httyd 2, Me and someone can share the exact same goods and issue with the movie, recognize the same number of flaws but while I might decided in the end that I like it despite the flaw. A person can go "I don't like it because of the flaw" same thing with Raya. I decided to like it, I like it.
I would place this in the same tier as Moana and Big hero 6. Which make the over all list of modern 3d disney animated film being Tangled>Wreck it Ralph>Zootopia> Raya and Moana and Big hero 6 > Frozen > Frozen 2 > Wreck it ralph 2
and that's about it, it got longer than original intended! lol
On the other dragon part. Yeaaaaaaaah. During the movie, I saw the stone dragons and was all "I wonder how the other dragons look like unstoned?"
I did not expect Sisu to be the best-looking of the bunch X'D
The other dragons are just. We got a purple one, we got a pink one, we got important green brother with a unique fan horn and an idol appearance. Other than that, I can barely remember who's who. Even when I watched the movie thrice.
Actually I think of them more as teletubbies, with their colors and their horns as their only identifying trait.
On the case of "Other SEA countries being under-represented", that is the case with me. As I saw the movie, I was all "I don't see any of my country's traits in it." The most I can see is the weapon (The Arnis and the Snake-tail sword/Kris), but other than that, I'm just lost on it. The movie proudly showcases that theme, and then there's me who's all "So why am I not feeling any connection to it?"
If I'm expecting to feel a connection to a movie based on my country, they'd have to make a separate movie based on my country alone. Because honestly, my country have some culture identity issues. It's often called "The mexico of the east", and there's lots of big influences on it from different countries. Especially spain, you can thank the conquistadors for that one. Whatever pre-colonial spanish culture this country had, it was either lost to time, or destroyed. What's left is Spanish, Chinese, and some Malay. And some indigenous people who are also under-represented in this country.
The movie seems to be going towards "pure SEA culture", and removing the influences I mentioned above, my country's kinda left with nothing. So it's understandable why it feels that way.
Also the Sisu-eating-shrimp-congee part. DID CAPTAIN BOON EVER SAVED SISU FROM THE HOT SAUCE. D'X
I have not watched the movie. That price tag is not worth it. Anyways the movie became so popular that BAB made a Sisu- I was surprised so I thought I would share. x'D
It was...okay. I don't think I would choose to watch it again, but if other people did I wouldn't mind watching it with them. For some reason Raya felt...too dramatic? It was like I couldn't see her as an actual character in the story; she looked like she was overacting the entire movie. Which, how??? She's animated??? How did they manage that???
Also Sisu's forms kept giving me whiplash. As a dragon, she seems very young, like maybe a teenager. As a human though, she looks and acts like a crazy grandma, it was just...weird. Though I guess she is hundreds of years old.
I did like the supporting characters, though. The boy captain and the little thief baby and the last Claw (was he Claw?) soldier. Like, those characters give me life. I laughed every time the baby showed up, and the soldier made me go 'awwww :(' when I realized he had a baby. I mean, the poor man probably watched his baby turn to stone. Ouch. And the kid captain? I wanted to adopt him right then and there. My favorite 'rip-your-heart-out' moment was when he turned to stone clutching Raya and burying his face in her leg. Why would you do that Disney.
My favorite 'whhhooaaaaa' moment was when Sisu attacked the Fang soldiers and sprayed that fog everywhere. She actually looked dangerous, which I loved. You don't often get to see the deadly side of dragons in kids' movies. Or maybe I just have a weird Addams-Family-like obsession with scary, beautiful dragons. The scenery and animation was really good, though. The amount of textures and lighting was super cool to see (I day like I know anything about animation).
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Rather a longish name for a smallish Viking. Hiccup is a member of the Hairy Hooligan tribe. He has bright red hair and about a million freckles. the series starts when he's ten-and-a-half, and progresses until he is fifteen and King of the Wilderwest. His best (and, for a few books, ONLY friend) is Fishlegs.
Fishlegs is scrawny, allergic to reptiles, pretty much scared of everything, and the only sane one of the group (well, the only sane one when Hiccup is making a Plan). But he's fiercely loyal to Hiccup, and a good deal stronger and braver than he thinks. 
She's a Bog-Burglar, a member of an all-girls tribe of people who, well, burgle things. She is a very accomplished thief and a master escape artist.
Shadow (again) by MajaPercuilum.
Shadow and The Dragoness together (by The Blobfish Queen).
That scene was pretty cool.. But in my opinion, she doesn't look dangerous, especially with the character design.
(Disney, you peabrains, don't you know dragons don't have eyebrows and dull teeth like that?)
Hence this edit I made.
I have a few things to say, lemme get in on this. I wanna say things but my mouth cannot make the words nice XD also these are my opinions and ideas, this isn't meant to really start a fight, I just want to get somethings off my chest XD
Okay so the movie wasn't too bad, I think a 7/10 since it was very beautifully animated and it had a good storyline going on and I definitly would like to watch it more. But watching it a second time really got me to look at the little things. Gonna section them out starting with the elephant in the room.
Sisu and the dragons:
Beautiful as all heck, I love their designs and I thought Sisu was hilarious! But that's the dragons alone, together in the world they stuck out in a way that made me uncomfortable. They just didn't fit with the world that Raya and The Last Dragon took place in, and that might be because of their design that isn't correct in that region.
Also Sisu's face. Is it just me or does it look like Elsa? And it just was too human and then when she did turn human...It didn't match up! Though I did like how they made her human form look, but I wish they would have matched it up better to the dragon.
The Druun: I gotta be honest... I really wanted some plot twist that these were evil dragons XD but I liked it, it was different from any other dark force I've seen
The aftermath: Anyone else get reminded of the Avenger's Blip? Like Raya is now like (did they say 6?) 6 years later after her father was taken, and he didn't look any older. I want to see something like that, like how did the Mom of the con baby (I forgot her name) feel about seeing her kid so much older after she left? (How the frick did the mother even get taken?!)
The message:
Trust? Really? Do you know how hard it is to trust someone, especially after they broke it? I think it was something to think about, but really I don't like it. I think forgiveness would have been better, since yes it's hard to forgive but it makes a greater message than for others. Forgiving, but never forgetting (there's a difference, but this is my own opinion). If you give someone a second chance then that means something and they totally could have spiraled off that instead of trusting random strangers, but if they really wanted trust to be the message then they should have done something a little different.
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Oh my gosh yeah! I was gonna make one sooner or later, but I've been having some problems retaining my attention span recently :'D
I'm juggling between thesis, cooking, expiring products, fishes, etc. You can wave a little toy in front of me and I'd chase after it like a cat.
At least I was finally able to make the thread, oorah!