Let's talk: Villain Valka

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chameishida's picture
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Ok with the new surge of the httyd 3 critics thread here for whatever reason, it has motivated me to talk about something that while not directly contribute to the trend but is maybe somewhat relevent even if to lesser extend. Because I don't want to talk about httyd  3 directly or think that I have enough to talk about that isn't already been said but if I am to go through my opinion quickly I pretty much don't like this movie as much as the others in the franchise, thinking it is the weakest of the 3, but I don't hate it enough to find joy in reading the critics even if I agree with the sentiment, but also don't like it enough to the point that when someone ask me what movie I'll consider Thanos-snap out of existance this would be on the list and does dunk on it regulary for funsy with my co-workers who also dislike the movie. But also have fond memories of this movie and have said that while it's not as good as--I forgot what movie I compare it to--but I said that while it might be not as good, it has more memorable stand alone scene that I like more. It's complicated---It's a very complicated feeling---any--anyway I'm going off track here, oh yeah the topic I want to talk about for this thread is Villain!Valka

(real talk, I actually want to make a video essay out of this but due to not haveing enough equipment and courage currently I will stick to posting this at school of dragons dot com forums for now because why not XD this might explain some of the weird format)


Now, as someone who got a monthly paycheck on this field of work, I should know better the importance of screening test and that if they decide to change something in the movie, let alone something that big, they do it for a reason. and most of the time for the better. So I'm not going to be like 'OMG They should have keep Valka as a villain! the franchise would have been better' or something like that. I get that the grass is always greener on the other side and just making Valka villain might end up making thing worse in the end. What I want to do though is anylysis and explore the potential change she would do to the franchise which leading up to Httyd 3.


or what I might been trying to say is, and this is full on conspiracy theory here but--the reason httyd 3 is not as good might has something to do fundamentally, specifically how httyd 2 has set everything up--with the lack of Villain Valka--


Villain Valka concept is kinda well-known in the fandom but to recap those that doesn't know, Valka was suppose to be the main Antagonist of How to train your dragon 2, She's still Hiccup's Mother but been living with dragons and dedicate herself to them too long that she's completly siding with them and don't believe that human can change.  So when Dragon attacked the Sanctuary, she snapped, thinking that Hiccup has betrayed her,  she then kil,led her husband and lead the dragon army to attack Berk.

It's...sound better than what I just typed, :/ hear me out

anyway there are a lot of material left to be seen of it; a storyboard of when she turned, a whole rendered animated clip of Hiccup saying he would like to remember the good memory of his mother despite the fact that she's gone crazy now, a concept art, an interview and so on

Checkmate — Éalá! I love your analyses everytime i read them....

(credit of the last three gifs to queenelinor it's not the whole gifset though I shortend it for forum reason)


From the look of it, they probably already have this whole alternative version ready, ready enough for a screen-testing but likely due to the react from it they decided to go with the different direction, fearing that it would be too dark. (Huh, Kinda sound similar the Zootopia collar concept now that I think about it)

Like I said, I'm not going to pretend this would be a perfect idea, Having her as a villain would play right into the predictable trope of the new-character-turn-out-to-be-evil- see-i-guess-that-since-the trailer-come-out! or that having her shift personality so drastic she ki,lled Stoick would be too out there, maybe it would bring up more problem than it worth that's why they change it for a good reason

(unless it's just socker moms/Karens who watch the screening complaining about having a mom as a villain is bad made them change it and for that I say bull)

And I like Valka! She's one of my favourite character, and it's not hatred for her that make me want to see her as a villain. It would pain me to lost our current Valka too


but This concept has always been fascinating to me, more than once I would love to picture the alternative universe where it actually happened, and there are serveral reason for it. I do think having her as a villain might even help out httyd 3 a little and that's because

-Villain Valka is likely so intregated to the plot that changing it mid point forward in httyd 2 ruined their plan of they story as a whole quite a little and they need to backpadel. From the movie You can even see her reaction when Hiccup mentioned that he's the one shooting down toothless, and I truly believe that's a left over of what would have been of her, from the interview, Dean did mentioned that she did react worse in the first version. and the fact that she attacked dragon hunters in the beginning would matter more than just for her to run into hiccup because of that, it's like they drop that story completely once they go over the mid point, ie the major shift away from villain valka plot, which speaking of--

-As a good character---Valka role isn't actually much after the mid point of the second movie other than delivered on a silver platter to Hiccup as a replacement parential figure so that he's not a completr orphan, being less of a mentor screentime vice and more as an extension of Hiccup's gang, maybe a few exposition dump here a there, be there for snotlout to censored ove---

-While predictable, having a mother for a villain is big and would make for a heart-wrenching moment, tragic sympathetic villain and a potentially good redemption narrative

 and most importantly of all; Having Valka as a villain would be like having Dragon as a villain

and not like dragon as a villain like the red death or deathgripper but Dragon side as a main conflict simialry to the book, because dragon in httyd is more like an animal they'd need a meduim like Valka to express their antagonistic feeling toward human to be able to be something similar to the book dragon. She's the voice of a dragon's anger. Valka doesn't control dragon for world domination like Drago but for her belief for dragon, as mention, she think that human cannot change and lash out once she thought Drago is a prove of it, like a dragon would. She lead the dragon to attack the hunter, that's the dragon on human conflict she started, She's not an evil woman but a major conflict that Hiccup and toothless needs to tackle and that is in line with the theme of conflict between human and dragon, not just because of human want to hunt them but because of the dragon hatred as well and it would benefit httyd 3 narrative a lot consider they want to go for that book angle, consider that they want to sepearate the two for that reason at the end

Heck even disregarding Villain!Valka, having dragon as a villain for httyd2 is one of the major thing I want change in that movie because it would make the whole seperation make more sense, if the point is that dragon and human are not ready together yet.


which this, that beg a question then what would happen for the rest of the httyd 2, we already has most of the elemet of it including dean summary on the end of this version:


"When Valka heard that there were dragons on the island of Berk, she thought the only way to really keep the dragons safe with Drago on the move, was to fly there and extract them. That third act was about Hiccup trying to defend the Berk way of life and the dragons that were there from his mother."


so gather it together it mostlikely going to be:

-Valka attacking dragon hunters, Valka kidnapped Hiccup, reveal to be his long lost mother, they bond

-then Drago happens and Valka lose it and lash out, Drago leave then to be the villain for the sequel but for now It's Hiccup that has to deal with Valka on her bloodlust quest to lash out the dragon anger on humanity

- Hiccup confront Valka and there's a hint that his word is getting to her but the conflict has not been resolved, Valka leave somberly losing most of her dragons' aliagent to toothless, then she's to also come back in the sequel


oh yeah has I mentioned Dean saying that the screening for httyd 3 feel like it's a "Httyd 2 part 2" so they also change that? That "httyd 2 part 2" is also another alternative universe I want to witness U_U *cough* Drago *cough*


as for the way it would effect httyd 3 and that big, it really would have to be really like httyd 2 part 2 with both Drago and Valka coming back, Drago more screentime this time since most of the focus was on Valka on the second movie in other to balance it out but also Valka need to be more of a threat in order to make the dragon separation from humanity a big pay off too. The discovery of the hidden world and the fury regardless if it's light or night or if it's one or the whole pack(actually does this plot point still even need, may be if we want to deliver toothless happiness on a silver platter to make up for the separation) would be a hint of their solution to the conflict but hiccup would be in deniel, not wanting to let go of toothless, then the conflict get out off hand and hiccup needs to make a hard decision. Maybe Valka doesn't even have to be an active villain for this, she sounds like she's nearly redeem already by the end of my speculation of the early version of httyd 3, maybe there's a bigger badder dragon took after her and Valka get to be redeemed. I'm also not sure if we should still be keeping World domination as Drago motivation because making him bad guys would go in line with how human need change so they need to go separate ways but I also found his "Hey Dragon took my arms!" interesting, but yeah it would feed to much into a "dragon bad"! argument so :/


Would Drago still have a bewilderbeast? i don't think so


Another intersting thought to think about is Cloudjumper, I love love Cloudjumper and it pain me to see him also be a villain or go,dforbid, potentially ki,lled off. but with Valka being a Villain I would have to consider

-His design; Cloudjumper original design is more Skrill/Deathgripper like (I always believe Deathgripper was designed after Beta Cloudjumper) something that wouldn't out of place a a villainous Dragon for most of the storyboard I've seen he was always drawn as that, we even seen him attacking berk with the bewilderbeast 


-His fate, would he be ki.lled off to make Valka snapped in replace of the white bewilderbeast in the actual httyd 2 movie, from the look of above picture, he seemed to still be kicking well. Would he be defeat and put down by Toothless like other villainous sragon like red death and deathgripper? Would he change alignment to Toothless and leave Valka? Would he be with Valka to the end and share his fate with her whether she's redeemed or continue to be a villain?


I don't think I have much more point or what I actually want to say here but yeah i guess I will end it here; I guess what I'm interesting to here in this thread is what do you think, perhaps less so on the idea of Villain Valka itself and more on what do yoy think would happen and how it would effect httyd3/rest of the franchise but you're welcome to share your opinion on the concept itself as well!


I can't believe I spent ehh...almost four hours on this, holy heck, maybe if I ever get around to actually do the video essay I will promate it on here XD







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LissaFish's picture
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I haven't even read this full post but ya got me with the title. Yes, just yes


edit: finished reading. good read! I knew most of this stuff and do believe this would have made a far more interesting storyline for both HTTYD 2 and 3. They could have pulled it off; I'm not going to put the brain effort in figuring out how but they could have done it without making it too dark.


And actually it would have stunned me to have them turn the animal advocate into the villian, no one does that (And, let's be real y'all, there are some animal advocates out there who have gone too far) Tbh I bet that single point is why it didn't go over with the audience, she was the animal activist.

The only thing that surprised me in Httyd 2 was Stoick's death, and I didn't like that, even from a writing pov. Too late in the movie, nobody ever really morns, even Hiccup, and after years of shunning him Valka's all like 'oh no I loved you so much'


Sorry. But no likey Valka. I could have appreciated her in this situation because her character would have made a little more sense xD




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chameishida's picture
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Joined: 08/01/2014
Ohhh that's an interesting

Ohhh that's an interesting point of view, I've always thought the "too dark" was meant for a villain mom and not villain animal activist, that does put thing into the new perspective for me.

but like you mention, I agree that even some real-life animal activist group tend to have...less favourable image to the public and less favourable way to deal with things...(and some are down right terrorist*cough*) For me personally, I don't think it's too hard to bend the angle from antagonisting animal protectors into those "Humanity are the virus of the world!" type villain. It would fall in line with "Humanity can change for the better" message I think they were going. Dreamwork just had to be careful not to fall into the 'Villain is 100% right! but mu,rder is bad! so they are bad guys" trope that disney pump out recently that I came into dislike.

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If that had been the plot, I probably would have watched it.



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As much as Valka has become one of my favorite HTTYD characters because she's a crazy dragon lady, I love concept arts! I'm so happy you've shown this! :D


Hmmm. Yeah I think it would've turned the movie quite dark, but it's an interesting plausible concept. The embodiment of a dragon's anger in human form. 

I think if they went to this route, I'd be kinda sad though. Because Hiccup kinda loses his mom to her rage, AND his dad to her. I'm already sad that Stoick died, my kokoro can't take the hurt. I would've probably drop watching the series here :'D


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Tracking so that I can read later.  Looks like a really good read.







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