Let's talk: Dragon Classes

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chameishida's picture
chameishida
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A really while back, someone on tumblr sent me an ask for Stormcutter classification. They reasoned that They think Stormcutter should be in the strike class because they're intelligent. I disagreed and wrote the long passionate answer about why I don't think that's the case and that it does fit in Sharp class.

 

That exchange got me thinking two things that Hey, I'm very passionate about dragon classes and some might be like me and want to talk about it too and 2. Some might have different opinion and rules how how the dragon should be classified. So I want to make this thread for us to talk about all that. At first it was only going to be "What dragon should be re classified" But I have more to said other than that so I think it's okay for this to be general Dragon class relate topic discussion. Disagree with the class?, Your own classification method?, wanting new class?, class symbol? You can discuss it right here!

 

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chameishida's picture
chameishida
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As for the stuff I want to

As for the stuff I want to discuss at this moment:

 

Groncicle and Sand wraith should switch class

Start off with the reclassification topic. I think the one or two I'm really passionate about is Groncicle and Sand wraith. Groncicle I think should be in Tidal class. The only reason it's in the boulder class seem to be because they're relate to Gronckle and perhaps because they're tough and I think that's not it. and no I didn't class it as Tidal just because they relate to ice either. Groncicle is aquatic. They're excellent swimmer, can freeze water around it and it live in the area that's surrounded by water. (Look even the wiki are agree with me on this...heck even SOD description agreed with me on this) It has nothing relate to rock, doesn't eat rock and spit it back out unless they count snow as mineral. They're not even brute-based as far as the text said, they doesn't have bludge tail like gronckle, there body are more steamline and rely more on their ice power more than their brute force.  Like I said, it seems to only be in boulder class because of it relation of Gronckle.

Sand wraith. Sand wraith is the tidal class because they swim in the sand like water, they lived on the beach near water and that they're aquatic too okay yeah that's fair that's in the text as much as the text said about Groncicle being aquatic. but then that beg question of, what about Desert wraith? For desert wraith the only thing it has going for being in tidal class is for swiming in the sand like water. but absolutely has no water attribute whatsoever. and you can say "Hey that's subspecies, that's not fair" Enter, Wood wraith. Wood wraith is a wood living subspecies Snow wraith that's not relate to snow. however it'd still make sense for it to be strike class because their strike-behavior is still the same despite the lack of snow. I find it weird that sand wraith in Rise of berk despite being a tidal class dragon is the only tidal class dragon that's not given a tidal class hbitat. So are they the ground-based dragon that just happened to be able to swim? A dragon that has more going on about sand than their water nature?  Because of this I think they'd be more fiting to be a Boulder class dragon than Tidal. Because Hey if Groncicle is a boulder class dragon that is aquatic, so can sand wraith, right? The different being that Groncicle is more water relate than they are earth relate and Sand wraith is more earth related than they are water related. But wait. What about the mystery class. Sand buster is esstially a canonifield Sand wraith and they're in mystery and not Boulder right? honestly I'm not sure what's up with that either but i'd say that Sand wraith being a mystery class dragon (or heck Groncicle being a mystery class dragon) is fair game as well

 

Dragons I'm okay with their current class but can bring up an interesting discussion of they're in different classes

I think there're a lot of dragon fit into this but some how the only one I could think of right now is Buffalord. They're in mystery because they're so rare and surprisingly jack-of-all trade which is fair, but I also think their explosive and surprisingly firey demeanor can land them in stoker as well. I also think Stormcutter isn't as out of place in the stoker. since time and time again cloudjumper has demonstrate to have very powerful tornado fire

Sentinel? Sentinel made sense why they're boulder because they're pretty rocky but I can see them being Mystery too.

 

 

Class symbol

There're a very old thread here discussed how outdate the class symbol are and I don't want to dig that up all the way from 2014. However I do want to bring up that yes. The dragon class symbols with dragon on it is very out date, that's true. WIth Nadder still on Sharp and Zippleback on Tracker. But something need to be said that it's because those symbol ARE outdate and they do have the update one already which is this:

Which is the symbol they've been using after the changes for quite sometime now. You can see it in the maze, in the painting etc.

 

Classification based on action (and others)

When I discuss about why Stormcutter is in sharp class despite not having much sharp attribute similarly to Scuttleclaw, Raincutter etc. I reasoned that it might be classified based on their attacks. In hindsight maybe this classifiacation isn't as good if we just view dragon as their fighting skill rather than just being an animal that live day to day and doesn't need  to fight for their live all the time but let's role with it for now. what we got is something like:

Strike class: Speed and element of surprise. (would suggest Range and ariel as well but Deathgripper and Triple stryke kinda muddle the water with this one. I still look at them and have the word Strike pop up to them but that kinda beck the question of what about something like Speed stinger? What about ambush predator dragon that strike like Sand wraith, Sand buster and sweet death?)

Stroke class: Fire power. Most of dragon already have their fire attack so to be in stoker class they have to be more stand out on that field or is an average joe that doesn't or can't rely much on their physical attack ie. Night terror and Hobblegrint (weak physical body)

Sharp: Sharp Physical attack. If the dragon is kind of an average joe with fire and claw then they mostly rely on or standing out more in their physical attack more than their firepower.

Boulder: Brute Strength or ground attribute. Something like if the dragon ram its body or use strangle something with their body ie. Grapple grounder, Crimson goregutter. 

Mystery: Grimmick/Unique ability. Like singing song, hypnisize, collecting bone, etc.

Tidal: Being in Water (not action based)

Tracker: Tracking attibute. The dragon can be tough(Rumblehorn) or Sharp (Nadder) or firey but if they have great tracking attribute it negate all other attribute

 

Excerpt from the stormcutter essay of why it shouldn't be strike class

Tldr; Stormcutter is an excellent flyer but is not fast dragon. They're intelligent but intelligence should not be the main criteria of putting dragon in strike class. Their attack is not ranged based. Honestly they're quite average dragon with claw and fly and flight and the things it has going for them is the four wing which might not enough to place it in Mystery. Its fire power that well incredible is not its more standout enough compare to its massive four wing body which is stormcutter's most striking attribute; physicality. Stormcutter usually seen using physical attack like bird of prey and that huge talon on the four wing might be why it's in Sharp class

 

Average joe dragons

Been mentioned a lot prior to this already but basically Average joe dragon is dragon that, just shoot fire, flying and has claw.  And it's usaully a fair game if it'd be classify into Stoker or Sharp. Maybe the physical body is more standing out like Stormcutter, then sharp. Maybe it is small but has great firee power compare to their body like Terrible Terror. Then Stoker. 

 

Triple stryke-Deathgripper-Speed stinger???

I don't really have answers for this one, I just mentioned about it prior and want to bring it back up in case someone want to discuss about it. They're screaming speed striker but they're more physcial and less range and ariel compare to other Strike class dragon and Speed stinger isn't even strike but they share common behavior with both Triple Strike and Deathgripper. or maybe Strike really need to be ariel even though triple stryke are seen to be more comfortable fighting on the ground. Discuss?

 

Sand wraith(again), Sand buster and Sweet death???

Again much like mentioned prior, these three seemed to give me a headache as well. All has ground attribute, all are ambush predator, striking unaware prey (can also Put snaptrapper into the mix as well) yet two of them are mystery and not either boulder or Strike. Sweet death I can argue that much like Snaptrapper it has the gimmicky attribute going on. and it's true that when I see these three dragon, they don't exactly scream strike class dragon unlike Triple Stryke and Deathgripper, perhaps because yet again, Speed, Ariel, and firepower are not their most stand out quality and maybe Strike doesn't need to be solely about ambush predator. Discuss?

 

Strike description doesn't make sense

There're a lot of things that bother me about the Strike description. 'Vice like jaw strength and extremely intelligent" seems like something that descirbed toothless (retactable teeth) and they just put it as Strike class description because it described toothless or something that the strike class dragons has in common but not the main criteria to put the dragon into this class. On Intelligence, there're a lot of other dragons that are intelligent that isn't nesscary a strike class dragon. On jaw strength. With excaption of deathgripper---all their jaw strength stats are the joke. all of them has 6 jaw strength while most other dragons from other classes has twice more. which is why when I think a dragon is fit for this class I rarely look at these two attribute. 

 

Fear class

Fear class no longer exist because viking are no longer fearing dragon and that's not a very good enough excuse. A lot of people seems to want a fear class back. However upon further inspect I think I do understand now why they get rid of it. First of fear is rather subjective. One dragon can be scary to one and not the other. Secondly if we inspect Fear class original criteria, a lot of them do stard to muddle with Mysterious class even when they both exist at the same time. The dragons that were originally in fear class are; Flightmare, Snaptrapper, Hideous Zippleback while Mystery class(during when fear class are still existing) are Changewing, Boneknapper and smokebreath. Fear class are descriped to be scary, stealth, sneaky while Mystery back then are described to be well mysterious. Multiple head are kinda scary okay, Flightmare strikes fears in viking for generation okay but so is Boneknapper, a ghostly bone wearing dragon of the myth. or Changewing who is the textbook sneaky and stealthy so much so Viking know little about them. Or how Flightmare is as far away as stealthy as can be. Smokebreath is also stealthy and sneaky but also mysterious, shrouded in the smoke. You see what I meant now? Appearance is too subjective and Sneaky stealthy can also be seen as Mysterious. The water is too muddle for the clear classification between the two. Where is the line between being mysterious, being unique and gimmicky, being scary and being sneaky?

 

New classes

There's a lot of discussiong about the new class. So far I agree that there should be ice/glacia class for Groncicle, snow wraith(even though wood wraith would be the problem), Bewilderbeast, Windgnsher(still debatable) and Wooly howl. During this threat however, I start to agree now that there shouls be a poison/stinger class dragon for Triple stryke, deathgripper, speed stinger and slitherwing. there might be a little problem for dragons that do have venom like Terrible terror and Scauldron though but maybe their other attribute is more outstanding. do flightmare's paralyze mist count as venom?

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Ooo, definitely tracking! I'm gonna have to do a LOT of research before I come back to this thread XD 

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I was gonna say. Get rid of the "vice like jaw strength" attribute for the Strike Class because Toothless, the literally example symbol for Strike in the old system, has a very weak jaw strength.  But you already covered that so allow me to play devil's advocate. 

"Vice like" simply means when they bite down, they can latch their jaws shut so they do not let go. It has nothing to do with the Kg's of force that they exert. So you could, in theory, have a weaker bite strength but still a latching mechanism that keeps your jaws shut (like what pitbulls have) when you don't want to let go, thus qualifying for vice-like.

 

Also.

Put Deadly Nadders back into Sharp Class.

 

They were literally the example of a  "perfect" sharp class dragon. The ONLY reason they changed it, is because they needed Astrid to somehow be able to find Hiccup while he was exploring. Which is such a lazy excuse for writing. 

 

One could also argue that the Triple Stryke belongs in Sharp Class, but it's stats are literally exactly the same as a Nightfury's except it has venom. So Strike Clsss makes sense.

I find it very interesting that the Triple Stryke is just as fast and just as stealthy as a night fury.... and then the show literally made it start clicking around everywhere as if that isn't the least stealthy thing ever LOL

Maybe it can turn the clicking off? Because it literally stopped clicking when Dagur trained it, I think. It's been a while but I don't remember it clicking as much with Dagur

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Ah I see! thank you for

Ah I see! thank you for explaination! I still feel like they put that description in just because of toothless' retacable teeth though, as none of the dragon has shown any of that skill, perhaps if they have show it more it'd be justified.

 

Agreed on Deadly Nadder, Glad I'm not the only one who feel like the reason they change the nadder lore is just to turn astrid's dragon into a plot device smh. They could just leave Nadder lore as it is and say that Astrid trained stormfly to be like that.

 

Mm yeah I still think Triple stryke in strike make sense. Since Sleuther is the only Triple stryke in the show we don't really know if other triple stryke is more stealthy, Sleuther was in the ring and is very confident so he's seen to be more of a brawler than anything. But I think even if they're a not-steathy brawler, for some reason they'd still scream Strike class dragon to me, it just that their share similarity with Speed stinger made me second guess if Speed stinger should be put in Stike class. perhaps the difference are just that Triple stryke can dive bomb (with tail and not fire shot) while Speed stinger can't

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Ugh, I'm too lazy to write an essay but, as Wolf and Star says, the Nadder needs to go back to the Sharp Class. It has annoyed me for years now.

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Agreed with all the people above^. Nadder needs to go back to being a Sharp Class dragon. There are more Tracker Class dragons (the only thing is the devs need to add them to the game, so...)

 

And, this is a personal opinion, but it always bothered me the classification of the Mystery Class. There are some dragons there I think don't belong, or that the Vikings do know much about them but they're still being shoved there as if to fill it more. And I feel there are some inconsistencies there, like the Smokebreath (I'd classify it as Stoker) and the Voltknapper/Skrillknapper.

 

The idea of "they put them there because there's still not much about them the Vikings know of" seems like a lazy excuse to me too. Of course, not everything is known of all dragon species. They don't know much of the Fathomfin and it is still classified as Tidal. Or the Night Fury. 

 

I dunno, there are just some things that don't quite fit in, I guess.

 

 

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The idea of "they put them there because there's still not much about them the Vikings know of" seems like a lazy excuse to me too.

Precisely. In my opinion, the Mystery class just seems like a "miscellaneous" class which includes all kinds of dragons and doesn't have any specific defining characteristics.

 

I pretty strongly disagree with the Hideous Zippleback being in the Mystery class as well, when I think that they would fit in Stoker just as well.

 

 

 

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Agreed.

There are some there I do agree with (Flightmare, Death Song, etc.) but a lot of them just feel out of place.

 

I just feel there should be either a sub-category, or a brand-new class for better classification.

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Hmm this is why like I said,

Hmm this is why like I said, I see more the criteria of the mystery class being a gimmick dragon more than them being unknown or undiscovered otherwise, like you said Night fury would have been clasified as Mystery. I would argue to your point that Smokebreath producing smoke to masked their body and make them look like smoke demon land them nicely in mystery class on the same legth as the like of Boneknapper and Changewing like when the class first introduced tho.

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Perhaps creating a sub-category for each dragon class could work to properly classify dragons? Or a brand-new one?

 

Ability-wise, I do agree it fits more in Mystery, but behavior-wise, it does resemble much of Terrible Terrors, or even Night Terrors. When I first saw it on the TV series, I initially thought it was Stoker. I guess I stayed with that idea?

 

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Personally I do have a bit of

Personally I do have a bit of bone to pick with httyd putting all the small dragon into stoker class. It made sense with Terrible terror because they're small but surprisingly feisty with their firepower. They're the only small dragon at the time so this small but with high firepower made sense to be in a Stoker. Night terror though, They forming into the sillouhete of the bigger dragon kinda ring Mystery to me but yeah I guess if they do fire-bombard at the exact same time in that swarm then it kinda getting Stoker-y. But then Hobgobbler. Has we ever seen it shooting fire in the movie? if anything wouldn't it made more sense to put them in Sharp class? Seeing them just bite everything at reduce everything in a mare second by those bite like that. Point being that like Gronckle-like dragon and Boulder class, I start to feel like Httyd just saw small dragon like Terrible terror and then putting them all in all in stoker because of the terrible terror and not because of the dragon themselves.

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I keep finding some other classifications to be extremely erroneous.
 
- Sentinel is a dragon that lives in the largest draconic graveyard in the world and is based on a mystic being (gargoyles). It doesn't make sense to be a Boulder class just because of the camouflage. For me it's a great Mystery class.
- With Buffalord, it doesn't make sense to be a Mystery class just because of rarity or healing ability (whatever). The fact that the spikes swell and shoot wildly along with the fact that he has adapted selfistic feelings for the protection of the species make me think much more of a Sharp class.
- The fact that the Sandbuster locates prey above ground also reminds me of a Submaripper on the surface of the water. Maybe Sandbuster would also guarantee a great secondary Tracker class.