Fixing the Night Fury

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MidnightSXN
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Warning: This post will be super long. I'm basically going to be criticizing the night fury and discussing how I think this dragon would act in the wild. If you have anything you'd like to share, I encourage you to!

 

Please DO NOT directly reply to any of my posts discussing this dragon.

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MidnightSXN
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Let's Start!

Word count: ~4400 

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not an expert in zoology, physics, or aerodynamics.

 

So, as some of you know, I do not like the third HTTYD movie. But I’m not going to talk about the movie. Rather, I’m going to talk about the dragon it’s starring: the night fury.

 

The night fury is (unsurprisingly) my favorite dragon. However, I think that the dragon is too OP and its stats do not (or should not) reflect the abilities of the dragon. I will be attempting to fix this dragon’s abilities, stats, and maybe even looks. Here is what I will be basing my adjustments off of: The Night Fury's personality, appearance, and behavior is a mix of a horse, wombat, kangaroo, bat, snake, dog, cat, panther, and a bird of prey. 

 

Most of my conclusions will be compared to the information given on the HTTYD wiki, my own understanding of this dragon’s behavior and abilities displayed by Toothless, and the research I have gathered on the animals this dragon was based off of. This post is a commentary on the current state of this dragon and a theory page on what this dragon would (or should) act like. I will be analyzing their abilities, theorizing their behavior, and commenting on their looks.

 

Abilities:

 

ATTACK (physical strength)

SPEED (flight)

ARMOR (skin durability)

FIRE POWER (strength of blast)

SHOT LIMIT (number of shots)

VENOM (self explanatory)

JAW STRENGTH (self explanatory)

STEALTH (camouflage)

 

Dive-Bombing: This is, by far, my favorite ability of this dragon. It’s what made me fall in love with it in the first place. This dragon has been compared to a jet plane, and recently I’ve watched videos of the Stuka dive bombing plane from World War 2. Someone in the comments pointed out something very interesting to me. They said that the “Stuka was a bomber and bombers have always been extremely vulnerable to actual fighter aircraft.” By this logic, and the fact that the night fury is a slim, medium-sized dragon, I think the same should apply. The night fury should be at a significant disadvantage when facing larger opponents with possibly better firepower. The Stuka was highly accurate, so it makes sense that the night fury should be as well. Another thing I am debating on with myself is its shot limit and firepower, but I’ll save that for the firepower section.

 

Night furies eat fish, and the NF has been compared to a bird of prey. I think the most fitting would be the osprey. Ospreys hover over the surface when they spot their prey before diving into the water with their claws extended. I think this tactic of hunting would go well with their dive bombing capabilities. And their tail fins would be very useful in helping them swim. Plus, their skin is more like a manta ray’s.

 

Apparently this dragon can fly faster than sound. I don’t think that should even be possible, but I can easily state that they fly extremely fast thanks to their sleek bodies coupled with the fact that they have large, powerful wings. I would lower their speed on the stat table.

 

Firepower:

This dragon has a pretty fitting firepower for it, I would say. I mean, the monstrous nightmare has a higher firepower than it, as does the deadly nadder, who can produce fire that’s hotter than the sun. What I want to discuss most about the NF’s fire is its shot limit.

 

I don’t think a shot limit of 6 is particularly low or high, but when I think of this dragon in relation to its dive bomb ability and the Stuka, I honestly think it should have a higher shot limit. Now, if the shot limit recharge was relatively high for this dragon, then I would say its firepower is pretty balanced since the dive bomb takes about 30 seconds to a minute, depending on the NF’s speed and altitude. (I consider a complete dive bomb to be the moment it starts diving to the time it resets its position for another round.) But let’s say that after 6 shots, it takes around 10 minutes to fully recharge. In the time it takes to recharge all of its shots, another dragon like the skrill could easily take it down, I think. And considering we’ve seen Toothless produce more than 6 shots at a time, I’d put its shot limit at 8 (if its recharge was slow). 

 

And since this dragon can charge up its shots, its shot limit could vary depending on how powerful a plasma blast will be. The more powerful a shot, the fewer shots it can release, and the longer the shot recharge will be. Like how the Stuka shoots b.ullets, the NF could release multiple blasts in a single dive. Granted, these shots would have to be weaker. Toothless has displayed this behavior many times in the shows, so this kind of setup would make sense. I would just make it to where the shot limit is higher when he shoots weaker blasts.

 

Basically, there will be variation in shot limit in relation to firepower—an inverse relationship, if you will. I’m not sure if it’d be unique to this dragon in particular, but I think it would make sense.

 

Stealth:

As you all know, I am not a fan of HTTYD 3. That includes me not being a fan of the lightning cloaking ability. The NF is nocturnal. It’s also black. There’s no reason for it to be able to turn completely invisible under any circumstances. So that ability has been yeeted into the trash.

 

The NF is incredibly stealthy. At night. And in the clouds. I think the stat for this category should be slanted. Plus, I don’t think this dragon is very stealthy when it flies fast, since, you know, it whistles. It lets everyone know where it is and what it will do. It’s like yelling at the deer before pulling the trigger.

 

Armor:

Ooh, this category makes me scratch my head. I know that sharks have thick skin, but I don’t think that their skin can prevent an arrow from going through it. And since this dragon is physically smaller than a lot of dragons and is also slimmer, I don’t think it could be able to go against a whispering d.eath successfully like in the show. To me, at least, dragons having fireproof skin makes a lot of sense. But it would also make sense for dragons to have skin that’s susceptible to extreme amounts of heat, and I mean extreme. Like the deadly nadder’s firepower. I don’t think even a NF’s skin could handle the heat of the sun. I would say the exception to this would be the skrill, since they harness lightning and even ride it.

 

Plus, when Toothless fought off Hookfang in HTTYD 1, I’m pretty sure Hookfang bit him. Have you seen Hookfang’s teeth? It’s unreal that Toothless’ skin didn’t break from 4 inch long teeth but he has scars from a bola.

 

Alpha Mode:

I hate this ability so much. The NF’s plasma blast can already knock a red death over, but it takes alpha mode to break a bewilderbeast’s tusk off? I can’t. This ability is being yeeted in the trash too.

 

Agility:

I’m going to be honest. I think that if the NF were real, it wouldn’t be a particularly agile dragon. Maybe in relation to other dragons, but I don’t think it’s as agile as the movies and shows display. Here’s why: they have an exceptionally long tail that would weigh it down. I honestly think that the secondary wings should be used (in tandem with the tail fins) to steer more than just the tail fins. The secondary wings on the NF is basically the tail of a bird. One of the more agile birds, the goshawk, has a very broad tail. Even soaring birds like vultures use their tails when they’re gliding. For the NF, I think the tail fins would be used for stability during dive bombing while the secondary wings are folded, for swimming, and for slight adjustments in the air. Plus, they’d be used for lift since a tail that long and thick would never stay in the air without the assistance of fins (then again, m. nightmares and many other species with long tails survive just fine without them).

 

Also, I don’t think it would be particularly devastating if the NF lost a tail fin. I mean, gronkles can fly just fine with wings that are as big as their teeth. In all seriousness, if the tail fins were lost, the NF would just have trouble stabilizing in the air instead of being completely unable to fly. Other dragons fly fine without them. I just don’t think that the fins would drastically help in agility unless you kept the secondary wings and enlarged them and removed the rest of the tail. Then the NF would just be a four-legged, scaly goshawk.

 

Split Spines:

I don’t really have a problem with split spines, but I just don’t understand why they were added as a feature and how they supposedly make a super agile dragon even more agile. How do split spines make Toothless turn sharper? I’d think that they’d cause more drag than a single row of short, dorsal fins. Honestly it’d be even better if the NF didn’t have spines at all, like the LF, but oh well. Speed-wise, the less spines you have, and the shorter they are, the faster you’ll be. The spines, I think, are for stability, like for dolphins and whales. Even their flippers help them stabilize. But I’m going to have to yeet this in the trash, since this was added purely for cosmetics and for the NF’s Super Sheshulness.

 

WIKI

ATTACK 15

SPEED 20

ARMOR 18

FIRE POWER 14

SHOT LIMIT 6

VENOM

JAW STRENGTH 6

STEALTH 18

 

NEW

ATTACK 9

SPEED 11/18 (when dive-bombing)

ARMOR 10

FIRE POWER 9/14 (for stronger blasts)

SHOT LIMIT 4/8 (for weaker blasts)

VENOM

JAW STRENGTH 6

STEALTH 3/18 (at night/in the clouds)

 

Behavior (this section will be mostly theorizing since we’ve only encountered one individual of this species):

 

The Night Fury's personality, appearance, and behavior is a mix of a horse, wombat, kangaroo, bat, snake, dog, cat, panther, and a bird of prey.

 

Cats:

This group of animals is, undoubtedly, what the NF was based the most off of. Personally, I compare them more to feral domestic cats than big cats, but I’ll flirt with both ideas.

 

The reason I compare NFs to feral cats more than I do big cats is because of how expressive and social Toothless is. Cats are more introverted than dogs/wolves. They need their own space sometimes. I have a cat that was a stray. He likes to be by himself sometimes and gets overwhelmed the more people there are (and if my puppy starts to harass him). But he is still relatively social and very friendly. Feral cats form colonies. And while I don’t think their hierarchies are as complex as wolves’ and chickens’ (yes, chickens have very complex hierarchies), they do have one. And while I don’t think feral cats hunt together (or even feel the need to because of the type of prey they hunt), they still form bonds with other cats. I think the same goes for NFs. I think that NFs form clans of some sort, whether they’re more random like lions or more familial like wolves, I think they form them. 

 

Scientists have said that the more intelligent creatures often form packs/groups because they know they’re stronger together. Plus it’s their instinct. Toothless doesn’t seem to have a problem being around other people or dragons whatsoever. And NFs are intelligent. I don’t think they’d need to hunt fish together, but I think it’d make sense for some of them to form groups. Obviously, there’d be loners. But they’d have a lower chance of survival, especially if they’re being hunted by Grimmel or other vikings. 

 

Not only is Toothless’ behavior too social to be completely solitary, but his looks are another factor. Do you know how expressive wolves are? Wolves use facial expressions, noises, and body language to communicate. NFs are very expressive animals. Why are they so expressive if they keep to themselves all the time? Plus, Toothless likes to “respond” to Hiccup whenever he says something. My dog, cat, and even chickens do that.

 

In the case of big cats, the quote from the wiki mentioned cats and then panthers. I think I can assume that the cats part is explaining their behavior while the panthers bit references their appearance and overall energy.

 

But let’s say that NFs are behaviorally like panthers. More specifically, the jaguar. Then I’ll do the leopard. Jaguars are solitary and territorial. They only meet with others of their kind to m.ate and to dispute territory. They also hunt at night most of the time. Their prey is land-based, but they do hunt caimans in the water sometimes. Okay, NFs and jaguars have the aquatic bit in common. The jaguar is also an apex predator that hunts many different types of animals. Their jaws are so strong that they can break a capybara’s skull (vice-like jaw strength). Their bodies are stocky, and they can drag large prey over land and in water.

 

Leopards are also solitary save for when they m.ate and fight over territory. But leopards are crepuscular (active at dawn and dusk); however, they can be nocturnal at times. They, like the jaguar, stalk and ambush their prey. Leopards also don’t fight other animals for their kill, probably because they’re a mid-sized cat (like the NF is a mid-sized dragon) and they have to share territory with hyenas and lions. Obviously, NFs wouldn’t fight either because they eat fish. Would they really fight over a small fish when they could easily go back to the ocean and get another one? This big cat can also adapt very quickly to the availability of their prey, and they often bring it into trees to eat.

 

Which “panther” do you think would fit the NF better, if you think they’d be more like big cats than feral cats? I’d have to go with the jaguar. But I still think that NFs would be more similar to feral cats since they are more social. I’m just not sure how their social dynamic would work. I’m actually thinking that maybe they’d form family clans like elephants because of how intelligent they are (also elephants have a matriarchy, and judging from the LF’s behavior and the assumption that she might’ve been queen before toothless was king, dragons might also be matriarchal to some extent, or furies would be, at least).

 

Dogs:

Dogs are, as everyone knows, pack animals. They’re very social and expressive animals. And while I appreciate most dogs’ constant enthusiasm, I think Toothless was too puppy-like in the third movie. I don’t think NFs would be as dog-like as Toothless was. I’m not saying they can’t be playful, because even Stormfly liked to play fetch, but Toothless often panted, displayed a gummy smile, and even wagged his tail. Aren’t older dragons (and animals in general) more mature? It’s usually just the babies that like to play, with the adults playing with them to simulate hunts or fights. I’d say NFs would be either less expressive to remain true to their cat nature but still form colonies, or they’d still be expressive but less over the top about their behavior. I think Gift of the Night Fury displayed Toothless’ behavior the best in regards to being cat-like yet social, as well as the end of HTTYD 1.

 

The only way I could see NFs being like wolves would be their group structure. Even then, I doubt they’d be as aggressive with one another as wolves are. Wolves fight to become alpha, there can be only one m.ated pair, and the omega is constantly bullied. I just can’t think of NFs acting like that. 

 

Horses:

I find this very interesting since horses form matriarchal herds like elephants. They are highly sociable animals, and interestingly enough, it’s thought that there is no “pecking order.” Horses don’t fight for dominance or establish dominance through punishment. They communicate through what Wikipedia describes as “positive reinforcement.” 

 

Wikipedia also calls their social structure a “h.arem model,” as a few males are in a mostly female group. The leader of the herd is a mare, and the dominant stallion tries to keep the other males from m.ating with the females. Like with chickens, the males protect the females and patrol to make sure there is no danger nearby. The stallions will often drive out both fillies and colts when they’re old enough to m.ate. The lead mare is in charge of leading the herd to food and water resources. Stallions are usually at the back of the herd to protect the mares and foals.

 

This type of social hierarchy would make a lot of sense for NFs, I think. The more I research and read about horse behavior, the more I can imagine a flock of night furies resting by a spring or traveling across the ocean to find schools of fish. This just makes me realize even more the potential this species had and how badly we were robbed of seeing other NFs in their natural state.

 

Bats:

NFs and bats sleep upside down. NFs can also sleep like cats if they choose. It would probably depend on the environment. Toothless’ reaction to his rival makes sense considering that w. d.eaths dig tunnels and NFs might sleep in caves if they choose. This would create conflict between the two species, but since the w. d.eaths are stronger than the NFs, the NFs have probably adapted to sleep like any other mammal would.

 

NFs would probably use echolocation to navigate caves they lived in, either to search for places to roost or to make sure there weren’t any w. deaths nearby. They could also use echolocation to locate fish under the water like dolphins. NFs would echolocate above water and below water to locate the school of fish.

 

Bats are very agile. And while I don’t think NFs just flying around would be particularly agile, if NFs used their tails as brakes to turn and adjust quickly in the air, it would make a whole lot more sense. I don’t think tail fins automatically equal turn on a dime.

 

It would be interesting if NFs hibernated. Obviously Toothless doesn’t, but he always warms up his bed before sleeping and Grimmel has mentioned they can’t handle extremely cold temperatures. NFs would probably live in more temperate environments. I don’t think they’d hibernate, but it would be cool if they did. They’d probably just migrate with their food like birds instead of hibernate like bats.

 

Bird of Prey (more specifically, the osprey):

I have to say that I’m surprised the sentence comparing this dragon to animals used the broad (and singular) term “bird of prey” rather than osprey, because I honestly think NFs are most like ospreys, with peregrine falcons being a close second.

 

I’ve explained how similar they are, but I can do a recap. Ospreys live by bodies of water. 99% of their diet consists of fish, so they do a lot of swimming. Ospreys dive into the water rather than sweep the surface like bald eagles. With the NF’s ability to dive bomb, them diving into the ocean to catch their prey would go together beautifully. They’d probably dive with their front feet extended so as to avoid water rushing into their mouths (or for whatever other reason ospreys don’t open their mouths when they dive). They’d either grab fish with their front feet or swim around to catch fish like what pelicans do, but they’d probably do the former because of the way their heads are shaped.

 

Ospreys, like eagles, also m.ate for life. They rarely m.ate with other birds. And the females usually lay 2-4 eggs. NFs would probably lay about the same, judging from how many children Toothless and the LF have. Ospreys also migrate during the winter. This could explain their intolerance of the cold and their rarity in the Archipelago (that’s a few degrees south of freezing to death, I might add).

 

Wombats:

So I was a little confused as to why the wombat, of all creatures, would be used as a model for the NF. I mean, their head is kind of similarly shaped like a NF’s, but when I did research, I understood a little better.

 

Wombats are intelligent, and they’re stubborn. They’re also very playful. The most playful marsupial, actually. Considering Toothless’ playfulness, this makes sense. I don’t think NFs can dig as well as a wombat though.

 

I’ve already established that I think NFs are a, if not completely social animal, then a mostly social animal. However, wombats are not very social animals, even though they’re playful. But they occasionally visit other wombats’ burrows. They are shy yet inquisitive, and they have been known to be friendly with people.

 

Kangaroos:

I had the same reaction to this animal as a comparison as the wombat. But I found some similarities with the kangaroo and the NF.

 

Kangaroos will often sniff each other when welcoming others into their group. This behavior has been shown on-screen between Toothless and the LF. They also have complex social groups, but there is a lot of fighting within them. NFs are known by vikings to be aggressive, but it is unknown if they are aggressive towards another member of their own species. Considering their intelligence, this is doubtful. Additionally, the LF showed no aggression or flightiness towards Toothless during their first encounter.

 

Snakes:

I don’t really see any snake-like behavior in NFs, but that might be because I rarely encounter them. And since the description doesn’t specify any type of snake, I’ll compare them to the rat snake, since I’ve encountered them the most.

 

Rat snakes can be black, so there’s a similarity. Rat snakes are usually shy, but they can be aggressive when cornered. They’re also smart enough to know that people fear the rattle of the rattlesnake and will even mimic it. Rat snakes are nocturnal and like warmer climates. They can also swim and usually only do so to get away from danger.

 

Obviously, NFs can’t constrict their prey, but this is something rat snakes do. They’ve also been known to ambush their prey. They have excellent climbing capabilities. And like most other snakes, the rat snake hibernates during the winter.

 

Appearance:

 

Overall, I really like the design of the NF. I think it’s very fitting for the type of lifestyle it probably lives. My only problem is the degradation of Toothless’ appearance throughout the movies. He looks like a plastic toy in HTTYD 3.

 

Conclusion/Final Thoughts:

 

They probably display the social behavior of feral cats, flock dynamic of a horse or elephant herd, sleeping behavior of a bat, expressiveness of a dog, hunting behavior (and maybe migrating) behavior of an osprey, playfulness of a wombat, sniffiness? of a kangaroo, and personality of a rat snake.

 

NFs cannot be solitary because of how expressive they are and how social Toothless is. The LF is also shown to be very friendly and sociable with Toothless. Also, solitary animals do not typically m.ate for life. Honestly, I would’ve thought that furies, like other dragons, don’t m.ate for life. NFs live in small social clans of around 4-6 members, and their social dynamic is like that of horses. NFs, being part of the fury family, tend to be matriarchal, and a dominant female is often the leader. They use their extreme expressive capabilities to communicate with other members of their species and often play with members of their flocks.

 

NFs hunt in a very similar fashion to pelicans and ospreys. They use their dive-bombing abilities to dive into the ocean and catch fish. Their nostrils, although cat-like, can close on command. During the winter, NFs migrate, but they tend to migrate depending on where they find food. Their stamina helps with the long flights rather than their durability in a fight. Their skin is tougher than most dragons’, but their smaller size and slimmer build put them in a significant disadvantage when facing opponents.

 

NFs sleep in caves or coves near mountains. They tend to sleep upside down, but since they share a habitat with the w. death, they sometimes have to leave to find a new place to live. NFs make homes in caves but leave them during the winter. Oftentimes they’ll return only to find that w. deaths have made themselves at home in their cave. Because they live in clans and have good firepower, they have a better success rate of fighting back.

 

They nest at the top of mountains, usually with their cave nearby. Their offspring require lightning to hatch, so they give birth at the top of mountains.

 

NFs are nocturnal. They usually hang out around cloudy weather if they are active during the day so they stay hidden. The two species of dragon that NFs worry about most are w deaths and skrills, but sometimes NFs will bait skrills into firing lightning on their nests to speed up the hatching process of their eggs.

 

NFs use their tails as brakes so they can use their powerful wings to quickly change direction. When dive-bombing, their secondary wings close to reduce drag and they use their tail fins to stabilize themselves. When gliding/soaring in a straight line, they use their tail fins to stabilize and their secondary wings to steer. Their large wings and fins allow them to soar for long periods of time. This allows them to migrate successfully.

 

NFs can vary their firepower and shot limit. The more powerful a plasma blast, the less they’ll be able to fire. The weaker the blast, the more they’ll be able to fire. Their highest potential of firepower can knock over a red death, while their lowest is concussive to other dragons (it’d probably still k.ill humans because fire is still hot and the force of the blast alone would be able to k.ill, despite it being considered weak).

 

NFs are physically weaker than most dragons and thus use their intelligence, firepower, dive-bombing, and speed to outsmart, overpower, overwhelm, and outmaneuver their opponents. Multiple NFs dive-bombing a single structure, dragon nest, or individual would prove to be a victorious strategy.

 

Feel free to throw in some of your own headcanons/theories! Don't agree with something? Let me know what about and why! I'd love to discuss.

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CrypticMoonFang
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I noticed that you largely compared a biological creature with more agility in flight to a machine using in WW2... The NF is not only smaller and lighter, but it's ability to tuck one wing quickly and make snap decisions on the fly is something an old bomber plane could never do. We also don't know the shot limits of the real Toothless because the game just needed something.

 

Its fins wouldn't help it swim too fast because the slender tail wouldn't have that much muscle to pump such large fins, and as a result the fins are more suited to rudders for sharp turns midair. The osprey is much smaller and lighter in color which means fish are less likely to notice it, while a NF is a big ole black thing that would randomly block out a large portion of sunlight. The beating wings would also mean stirring up too much water and scaring fish off. The wings are huge in comparison to the body so the wings are not meant to fly too close to any surface like the water of ground, and would require much more effort to hover and keep air than to glide, which majorly what Toothless does when flying (making the sharp-turning fins all the more important for agility because otherwise the turn would be agonizingly slow).

 

As for his fireballs, while the Nadder can shoot intense flames, plasma is basically so hot that the fire itself takes on a physical property and becomes a ball of ultra heated gass that can be shot rather than spewed or breathed. If anything the firepower of the NF is greatly underrated. You're right in that the shot limit should be higher for weaker blasts though, since charging and changing shape affects how much energy and "firepower" the dragon puts into a single shot.

 

I'd also like to say that while stealth is spot on, extreme heat on a NF is a different matter entirely. It makes perfect sense for the NF to withstand extreme heat. It can't survive in cold climates and is a reptile meaning it is ectothermic. It needs external heat to live. Additionally, the NF harnesses the same power as a Skrill (evolutionarily they probably shared a common ancestor). First this is shown in "alpha mode" when Toothless releases INCREDIBLE amounts of power from a clear energy reserve stores inside him, enough to demolish a Bewilderbeast's huge, thick tusks that are used specifically for fighting other Bewilderbeasts. The tusk is a tooth and obviously very strong. Given that the NF uses plasma, the fourth state of matter and as I said earlier ultraheated gas, this energy reserve must be able to provide an intense amount of energy just like lightning.

 

The NF can also withstand lightning and use it to its advantage. While there is no need for the NF's stealth, it is still a member of the fury family and if the LF uses plasma heat to activate her "mirror" scales, the NF's ability isn't all too surprising either because lightning is extreme heat in itself. Don't forget that alpha mode itself is the NF's way of opening that energy reserve making it more powerful but most likely for a limited period of time.

 

The tusk of a Bewilderbeat is stronger than the Red Death. It has to be, it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Bewilderbeasts are larger and stronger the the Red Death and the tusks are meant to fight each other, meaning that naturally this same tusk would have to be extremely thick. Furthermore it doesn't look like the Red Death has even MOVED in ages because she had no need for it. The Bewilderbeast acts like a lion in a sense. It doesn't have to move much but this is more to conserve energy for when it actually has to fight. The Red Death's poor wing condition means that she is either old (which makes her easier to defeat) or weak from so many lazy years. Even then, Toothless relied on the Red Death building up a large amount of gas INSIDE her to destroy her, as a smal spark would've accomplished the same task and she basically destroyed herself through her own fire. The Bewilderbeast breathed ice not fire so this tactics wouldn't have worked anyway. Toothless didn't really need too much energy to beat her, but the diving helped increase the power of the impact enough to knock her down. I really think Toothless couldn't have actually killed that Bewilderbeast, being as that tusk was hard enough to get off and the Bewilderbeast CHOSE to leave of its own accord instead of fighting to the death like Drago wanted. So Toothless actually won by default proving the Bewilderbeast's superiority.

 

Alpha mode could've also been activated because Toothless was trapped in an extreme environment (the ice block) which NFs cannot survive in. Perhaps this energy reserve was NOT to power up Toothless, but to keep him warm in a time of crisis, and perhaps Toothless diverted that energy to his plasma shots to increase their power. Note that we didn't see alpha mode again until he had assistance with lightning (an alternative form of his energy reserve).

 

The NF's finned tail is essentially the source of its agility. Its streamlined figure helps and tucking on wing helps a sharp turn become even sharper, but as you stated with the hawk, a broad tail is key to agility (which is why his fins are huge and voluntarily maneuverable). The secondary set of wings only maneuver one way: tucking them in or spreading them out. This will not work great for turning and their purpose is to add extra coverage for gliding. The tail fins are the primary reason Toothless can make sharp turns like he can. Additionally, without those fins assisting him, the tail wouldn't even be needed. He's so low to the ground, mainly flies as locomotion, and has two wings that can act as weights to help him balance. Not only would there be less agility, but his tail would only drag on the ground for no reason. 

 

I agree with you on the spines...the only use I can see would be defense but NFs are designs for high flying, who's gonna attack that thing from above??? And the double set of spines are not exactly aerodynamic like the rest of him... I don't know why those are there. Maybe...a leftover part from evolution? If the NF and Skrill shared a common ancestor, and the Skrill kept long spines, then maybe the NF is still getting rid of them? Again I just don't know...

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Reeee why did you directly reply to my post.

 

I only compared a Stuka's vulnerability to other aircraft with the night fury. As in, the Stuka is good for dive-bombing, not for dog-fighting. The night fury is a slim, sleek dragon. It would not be able to single-handedly defeat stronger dragons than it. I have no idea if the Stuka was agile, but they were built to dive-bomb, similar to the NF. The NF's main attack is dive-bombing so it'd make sense that they'd specialize in that but still be vulnerable to other attacks. I'm using the Stuka to explain why a NF should not be able to easily fight off a w death or other larger dragons, especially when we've seen a m nightmare easily pin one to the ground. Yeah, I'm just making up the shot limit because we really don't know, but I think that 6 is a good happy-medium with this kind of a dragon.

 

I don't think the NF would be able to swim that fast either, just better. Also, NFs are nocturnal, so NFs use echolocation to find a school of fish, and since the night sky is black and the NF is black they shouldn't have too much trouble catching fish. The osprey hovers 30-130 feet above the air, probably out of the view of the fish, and then dives. The NF would have to fly higher to avoid detection because of their wings, sure, but they could still manage to successfully hunt.

 

That's why I slanted their firepower. 9 is for their weaker shots and 14 is for their more powerful. Notice how I gave a "key" to how I am judging the stats. For firepower, it's not necessarily for heat. I also consider the strength of the actual blast. I think Stoick d.ied from the sheer force of Toothless' blast, not from how hot it was. Considering what you said, I might bump the stronger shots to 17 to account for the heat. But the d. nadder will remain above them because magnesium can burn at 3100 degrees Celsius (5610 degrees F), but an acetylene flame mixed with common air can only get as hot as 2500 degrees C (4532 F). One thing I know is that NFs should not have a firepower higher than a skrill's. Skrills have a firepower of 12 while NFs have 14 and d nadders have 18. That doesn't make any sense.

 

Remember that I am "fixing" this dragon, as in removing certain traits from it and inserting my own based on its description that I think would fit. I think the lightning cloaking and alpha mode were plot devices and excuses to make the NF more OP, not because they'd actually have those abilities in the wild. That's why I discarded them. This is basically my own recreation of this dragon, so those two abilities would be unnecessary.

 

Since I am removing the lightning cloaking and alpha mode, this dragon can no longer handle extreme amounts of heat. Yes, its plasma blasts are extremely hot, but I think the biology of every dragon has adapted to handle extreme internal temperatures. Internal. So they shouldn't need external heat to survive. I just think the NF's environment is further south, like how some animals cannot handle extremely cold temperatures. Honestly, I think Toothless wandered to Berk or got lost and ended up so far north, so he's not even supposed to be there in the first place, and that might be why they're so rare to begin with.

 

The alpha mode being used to conserve heat would make a whole lot more sense, but I still wouldn't include it because I honestly think NFs live in more temperate climates.

 

When I say that the secondary wings should be used for steering, it's because they're much closer to the body. Like I said, their tail is long. It's kind of hard to think that tail fins that are 10 or so feet away from a body and wings much larger than them can make said body and wings turn on a dime. And especially when they're in high-speed flight, they won't be able to turn sharply. If they're supposedly supersonic, they're not going to be able to turn as sharply as they normally would, just like a jet. My adjustment would be for the secondary wings to be the main component in turning since they're bigger and essentially the tail of a bird or bat, but they still work in sync with the tail fin to steer. Then when the NF is dive-bombing, the secondary wings close and the tail fin is used for stability and minute adjustments in the air. I actually thought of a way that could better incorporate the tail fins in flight, and I wish I could show you, because I don't think I'd be able to explain it all that well on here.

 

Also, bats are very agile as well. Bats can and do use their tails to brake and then their wings to change position. I think that would make more sense for a dragon that's more bat-like than bird-like, especially because I don't think that tail fins alone would be able to make them turn on a dime. The only bird that can do that is either the goshawk or the hummingbird. Even then, I don't think the NF is particularly like either of them.

 

Exactly!! I don't understand the purpose of the split spines at all. How are two rows of spines better than one on a fast dragon? I just think the purpose of spines on dragons is for stability more than anything, like on porpoises and fish. 

 

Also, I'm not thinking of evolution in the case of these theories simply because I have no idea if evolution has been confirmed in this world. Plus, I'm just not very knowledgeable on the subject (on macroevolution, that is).

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Sorry, I thought you meant the original post. :( 

 

Problem is we don't know how far the echolocation goes and the waves of the water would mess with the sonar unless Toothless was actually under the water. And that's not ideal for a high flier like the NF. This would work if the fish jumped out of the water but because he's flying so high he wouldn't dive in time to catch the fish. In theory this could work on flying fish but his main diet seems to be trout and other river fish. I will take into account that because he may be out of his normal climate/habitat, he had to adjust his diet. The possibility that he also eats small animals but developed a taste for fish in particular is also a possibility. His figure doesn't look like it would be great for hunting anything bigger than a dog. I just think that if necessary he may have also hunted small animals to make up for a possible deficiency of fish.

 

I'd honestly just nix alpha mode because you're right, unless it was to conserve heat ina more frigid environment I think they put it in to both make him look cooler and to make him more powerful. Like he really shouldn't be the most powerful dragon JUST because he's the last of his kind. That's a bit too convenient...especially when Grimmel sits there and says he single freaking handedly killed EVERY NF. Just what? One human dedicates his life to this and an entire species is eliminated? I facepalmed at that. I'd sooner believe that he managed to push the species out of their normal habitat to freeze...

 

I'm not so sure Toothless actually got lost. I think he was pushed out (if Berk's area isn't his natural environment) and was found and captured by the Red Death, forcing him to stay there until his loyalty to Hiccup became his new reason to stay.

 

The part on the dragons' Biology to handle extreme internal temps while being a reptile is confusing to me. On one hand it's shown that they actually can't handle it, but then they produce hot gas which suggests they can...? I just...I think they couldn't make up their minds and followed lore instead of physics and all. I'm just trying to find some way to make sense of it I guess.

 

Bats are extremely agile but I still feel like because Toothless is so much bigger and heavier, the type of "fin" on a bat's tail wouldn't be nearly enough for him. But seeing as you're inserting your own mechanisms, the secondary wings could work that way. I'm only basing this off the canon form of Toothless. 
 

So the way evolution works is basically slowly getting parts you do need and getting rid of the parts you don't use anymore. Perhaps in the past the NF's ancestor couldn't fly high yet and was attacked from other predators from above, resulting in spines to protect its backside and possibly to show off to other males and females. But when NF became a high flying dragon, there was no need to protect its back and it began to lose the spines. I think the Skrill may have kept them as a form of intimidation.

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At least some dinosaurs are thought to have been warm b.looded. Birds have also recently been put in the reptile group. I don't know why a made up reptile can't also be warm b.looded. Espessully if this is a reptile known to produce litteral fire as even if its body didn't produce much heat it could still warm the ground and sit on that warm spot. I'm not trying to be rude with bluntness or anything but this seems to be a kind of weird sticking point as there's no reason a reptile-like animal HAS to be cold bl.ooded as some kind of rule. It just so happens that most of the reptiles we think of as classic reptiles alive today are.

 

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According to fossil records birds were the first endothermic animals. However I agree with you on a made up reptile being endothermic as well. Still confused about the fire thing but sure, if they're made up then I guess anything can happen (COUGH alpha mode COUGH).

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You might wanna re-research that. Pterosaurs (while not dinosaurs) may have been endothermic too based on how active people think they needed to be to have the lifestyle they seemed to. Most dinosaur style raptors likely were as well. At the minimum basically any dino known to have feathers has been theorized to be at least partly endothermic because of what feathers would have done for non-flying animals. Covering an animal in fluff that does not create its own body heat doesn't do nearly as much for temperture regulation as it would an animal that does produce its own heat. 

Many dinos that were not feathered were and are still also debated on with the endotherm topic.

 

 

(Side note I needed to edit this because somehow part of my post ended up out of order. Probubly just me...not reading right as I was typing parts)

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I guess I will have to re-research that then. :P 

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Since you mentioned being a nerd in another post I thought you might find this interesting rather then taking it as a jab. Do you remember how the raptors in Jurassic park fogged up a window with their breath? Talks of dino warm b.loodedness were happening even back then and while that movie is far from accurate it was more accurate then most media of its day. The creators added that breath fogging a window detail on purpose.

Cold b.looded animals can't do that. At least, not as easilly. J.P. raptors despite looking very reptile-ish are warm b.looded.

Also...there were mammels beside the dinosaurs. Early ones that looked kind of like rodents but they existed. 

 

 

(I said Reptile-ish on purpose because I thought it goofyer then the more accurate term. Since I didn't bother spell checking this I figured why not make fun of my own writing?)

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I mean there's no surefire way to tell. You could be right, some dinosaurs could've been endotherms, but 100% accuracy on an extinct species is almost impossible (almost because of recent extinctions not BC extinctions) because there is no recorded data from their time of life. There's educated speculation but a thorough analysis of each crevice of its physiology is ahead of its time. I mean in dentition we can tell the primary diets, and that's concrete, but to say whether a raptor is endothermic or ectothermic can only be guessed at. Even if it is an educated one, there's a possibility of it being inaccurate. 
 

This isn't to say you're wrong or right, I'm just saying that right now we don't have the tech to recreate the species to find out every last piece. (And frankly I'm willing to make the sacrifice of never knowing for certain if it means we do not try to bring back the dead. We have like five movie explaining why that's a bad idea.)

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It's all good. I probably won't be needing to edit my post anyway.

 

That's true. I mean, NFs might use the echolocation for schools of fish that are on the very surface of the water, but that's just how I imagine their hunting styles to be. Yeah, I honestly think NFs live in a completely different area, so they might not even usually eat fish, especially if they prefer the mainland. In that case, if they hunted fish, maybe they'd just catch them like how bears catch salmon. Who knows? Interestingly, the wiki says they eat beef as well as crabs. I doubt they'd eat crabs, but maybe that's where the wombat bit comes in, and they dig for them. Cows, though? Like you said, they probably can't hunt larger animals. I think their diet constitutes small animals and fish.

 

I know right?? There's no way that a dragon with superspeed, alpha mode, lightning cloaking, and good firepower could be hunted down by just one guy.

 

That is very interesting. Since we really only know of the dragons in the Archipelago, I wonder if there's other species of dragons that compete heavily with NFs do for food and shelter, like the w death. 

 

Agreed. Like, I know that reptiles are cold-blooded and need external heat to function properly, but NFs being unable to handle the cold? Maybe because he can't handle more extreme cold, like how I don't think he'd be able to handle extreme heat. But he can still produce fire. Very hot fire. One person mentioned the alpha mode activating due to stress. If they'd incorporated the alpha mode as that instead of just a dominance display, I'd be able to understand it more. Like you said, he could've activated it due to the cold. If NFs get in a situation where they're in freezing temps they can't handle, they just activate alpha mode so they don't freeze to death. That'd actually work better, since the dragon would be under stress, and Toothless was obviously under a lot of stress while under the bewilderbeast's control. Personally, I'd still leave it out as a characteristic, because NFs already only have, like, two weaknesses. The cold could be another (then again, the cold is virtually every living thing's weakness).

 

Yeah. I'd have the secondary wings be more mobile and active on the dragon. And it's not like the tail fins won't play a role in steering at all, I'd just have the secondary wings do more work since they're bigger. The tail fins' main role would be stability during dive-bombing, but they do help steer. 

 

That makes sense. Just to prevent confusion with myself, I don't think about evolution in the context of this world, because I don't know if anyone's confirmed it existing in it yet. 

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I've never relied on wikis because they tend to be inaccurate in areas I consider important. For instance this wiki specified crabs. Crabs live near water, on coasts and beaches, and under the water. The crabs would sense a whole dragon and flee, leaving a NF to dig for them at best. Problem. NFs don't seem to like getting dirty that much. They're constantly clean and Toothless wouldn't even use his claw tips to draw in the dirt, he had to go get a stick. Lol this could be mimicking Hiccup but furies seem to be a pretty clean dragon to me. Not to say they don't get dirty, but they don't strike me as diggers. And frankly their claws are meant to catch and hold, and not one part of them looks like a shovel to shift dirt. And yeah beef...unless someone gives it to them, I can't see that being part of their natural diet. 
 

Even if NFs didn't have ANY of that, they'd know to flee. The first one Grimmel killed was asleep. And I doubt that only NFs were attacking his village so he really has no reason to hate a single species over all the others let alone hunt them to extinction... I have some major problems with HTTYD 3... Grimmel is a big problem.

 

Most likely there are. A lot of boulder dragons live in caves which is where NFs tend to live as well. It's entirely possible he was pushed out of his nest or cave or whatever and just happened to get caught in the Red Death's mind control web. I think it better explains why there are no other NFs in the area (although Toothless has been confirmed as the last of his kind by the directors and that's why I keep saying "if" it's not his natural environment). 
 

According to Grimmel they can't survive in the cold for long and that's why I thought alpha mode might be for heat conservation and for a limited period of time, kind of like how animals store fat that disappears over winter or how a cheetah sprints but only for a short time before running out of energy. I'm thinking maybe alpha mode was a NFs heat reserve through stored up energy in its spines (maybe that's their purpose?). It could give them enough time to turn back from the cold and reach a warmer climate. Stress is also a good point but then I wonder, how did this biological purpose come to be? No other dragon seems to have that and they were ALL under control. They all shared a similar if not the same stress. So why only a NF? LF can't do that under stress otherwise ooohhh yeah we would've seen people and ships blown to tiny little bits and splinters. But Grimmel didn't say LFs couldn't survive in cold (yet made it clear that he knew there were different types of furies) and he didn't say furies in general couldn't survive in cold. He specified the NF which, if alpha mode is exclusive to NFs, would mean stress is unlikely to be a trigger for it. It's a pretty good thought though.

 

I think it is because of the fact that there is a lot of genetic diversity among dragons to the point where there isn't just a single type of fury. I would venture to say there isn't a single type of Nadder, nightmare, etc either. In fact the Quaken looks to be extremely close to the Gronkle and the Screaming Death is likewise close to the Whispering Death. 

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The only reason I look at the wiki is because that's where all the information for all the dragons is. Obviously, it's not the most accurate thing ever, but I go by it because that's all we have in terms of an online references for dragon behavior and stats. I was just musing with the idea of NFs digging crabs because they're compared to wombats. I don't think NFs would actually dig for crabs and eat them. And since they exhibit cat like behavior, it would make sense that they'd prefer to be clean.

 

Exactly!! Ugh, don't get me started on my HTTYD 3 rant again, lol. I might just have to go back to that thread and post more problems I have with it.

 

That would be a perfect reason for Toothless to have left his home.

 

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. If that were the canon reason for the ability, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it because it would make sense. I just h.ate how that explanation might be cheapened by it being used as a dominance display rather than a survival tactic. I don't know how or why it is only apparent in NFs and if stress is a trigger, which is why I wouldn't include it as an ability of this dragon. There's just so many plot holes that come along with it. However, I love that its use could be for survival rather than dominance.

 

That's true. I'd love it if there was a show between HTTYD 2 and 3 that showed more subspecies of dragons. Or if there was a rebirth of the franchise that includes either Hiccup and Astrid's kids or kids from another part of the Archipelago (or even the world) that encounter different types of furies. I'd love to see them. I'm telling you, we were robbed, lol.

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Too shaky for me, I like to observe and research because I am such a nerd. Lol

 

I could honestly make an entire post about the problems with HTTYD 3 but I won't because there have been plenty as it is. Some people were just in it for the ride which I totally understand, because that was me at first. Then my nerd brain got to thinking and I started developing some problems with it.

 

It's possible that, since Toothless is capable of charging his shots, he decided to use an energy source that was no longer needed (since he was out of the ice) to give a boost to his shots, diverting that energy reserve to increase his own power for a short time. In turn this could've also wasted that energy which is why we didn't see alpha mode being sustained for very long. Perhaps it is meant to last longer for a NF to reach its warmer climate but Toothless just went against that purpose. I'd also imagine that this mechanism came to be because NFs lived in caves that may have been closer to a colder area that they might constantly fly into for maybe food, during winter? Some fish are still quite active in winter and the caves' fish may hibernate or migrate out, forcing a NF to go in search of food, and perhaps (NFs can't fly long distances without rest) the colder climate they would have to go into is the closest resting point. Evolution constantly screws a species over so instead of simply adapting to the cold, the NF stores energy to keep from freezing in that climate. But I don't know. This is just a really fun idea to entertain since alpha mode is already there anyway. As for dominance, while I totally agree that it probably shouldn't have been used for that, among dragons there is clearly a hierarchy. With no other NFs around, Toothless had no competition, but when a real alpha appeared and threatening him and his...group, flock, pack?...maybe NFs showed dominance by a power struggle and that's what actually happening. Not necessarily just to protect, but under massive threat his instincts may not have given him as much choice as it appeared. In the animal kingdom this is actually quite common especially among males (that Bewilderbeast was a male).

 

Yeah we were robbed a lot... It was nice to venture to other species of dragon and I will say that subspecies or not I was really glad there wasn't a cliche "oh look another NF and it happens to be female!" We did sort of just get that cliche plot with Hiccup's mom (sort of, the circumstances were far from cliche which made up for the cliche itself). Plus it showed us that there is more than one kind of fury so the LF, while I do still have my own problems with her, did actually have some upsides.

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Trust me. I get it, lol.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing the more specific details you didn't like. Most of the people agreed with me on my post, but a few did add some details as to what they didn't like. One person even shared an article that goes into extreme depth with criticisms that I loved. I can post it here if you're interested, but I think I remember seeing your comment on that thread, so you might've already seen it.

 

Makes sense. I definitely like your explanation better than what the movie implied. I'm still skeptical about the use of an alpha mode for dominance, simply because I doubt NFs are hostile with each other. The interactions between Toothless and the LF were out of curiosity, maybe because they both looked so different from each other, but the LFs in the Hidden World seemed to respect Toothless and the LF with no issues. But using a survival technique to power his shots is definitely more plausible than hehe Toofless is da best dragon cuz he's a nite fury, and nite furys are da best becuz there super powaful and nothin can k.ill dem! It'd be interesting to know if certain species are more patriarchal or more mathriarchal, or which ones don't care because either either gender can lead them or they're more solitary. Judging from Toothless' quick power grab, I honestly think it's possible the LF might've been leading the dragons in the Hidden World. Then again, I don't really follow the HW's logic because it doesn't make sense for some of the dragons to even be there and why the completely wild dragons accepted Toothless as their leader in the first place. The bewilderbeast is "the king of all dragons," as Valka put it. I don't think the NF is an alpha species, but the writers just wanted Toothless to be even more special than he already was, and I think that might be part of the reason why the directors determined Toothless to be the last of his kind. So no one else can steal the spotlight from him. It makes me furious.

 

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the LF, but I've been accepting the species more as time goes on. I just wish we got some closure with the NF species. But to be honest, if I were on the writing team for HTTYD 3, Toothless finding a m.ate probably wouldn't have even crossed my mind as an idea for a story. Sure, I would've confirmed the existence of NFs, but it wouldn't be so Toothless had a m.ate. Then I might've added LFs or other furies into a TV show or a short film. Honestly though, Toothless never struck me as feeling lonely that he's the only NF until the third movie. In HTTYD 2, when Hiccup speculated about finding NFs in a certain part of the Archipelago, Toothless just made a noise like he was saying "Yeah, maybe." Then Astrid and Stormfly showed up and Toothless moved on. Maybe that's because dragons will pack-bond with anyone just like humans do with anything. He's not too worried about finding another of his species because he already has all the human and dragon friends he'll ever want or need.

 

We'll probably never know, and while it's still fun to theorize and speculate, I'd love to have the answers to my questions about this dragon and what on earth compelled them to make HTTYD 3 the way it is (oh wait, it's to sell toys). But I'll get over it, I guess.

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*deep breath* Specifics, specifics. Yes I do believe I made a comment on critical posts of HTTYD 3. I'll just start with my three biggest problems. Alpha mode and the whole lightning thing would normally be one of them, but if I think of alpha mode as a survival mechanism with a diversion of energy to help ultra charge Toothless'  plasma shots, and his common ancestor being a Skrill, I'm not as concerned with it, so I'll exclude it despite still having some problem with it. The LF is one HUGE problem I have. First off this is a Dreamworks movie and they went all Disney on us with the love story. It took Hiccup, who already had a crush on Astrid, forever to get one kiss ON THE CHEEK, and that kiss was more of a thank-you than true love. He also had to work his butt off just to impress her. Clearly there were other options for the LF. She takes literally one look at Toothless while she's dopey and falls in love with him forever. Toothless, upon seeing another fury? It's no wonder he's so curious and interested in this FEMALE that he has no other choice but to be interested in (he didn't know of other LFs until this point). So to a degree I understand his immediate crush and excitement. But the LF has absolutely no reason to just love him all of a sudden. There's wasn't any growth! Then there's her design. I do think that because she's a fury, this is rather fitting (there's a certain species norm that she should realistically stick to) but white? Come on guys. She lives in the HW which is a freaking cave and should if anything be brown or gray or something. Albinism obviously did not occur since this is an actual subspecies. Her personality is also awful. She's timid and that is understandable because she's been so horribly mistreated by humans, but aside from that (and the barest amount of bravery she's shown like pulling Hiccup off Toothless' back or venturing into a human camp), she has no actual personality. She is so bland. Practically a blank slate. She's not playful and that's what bugs me most. She has no likes or dislikes aside from dragons and humans respectively. They didn't put much effort into her character. The Harry Potter movies last like 3.5 hours, they could've extended the time to show us maybe two scenes of her displaying personality instead of a love story and instinct. Toothless, who has tons of personality, could've chosen (and might've chosen) a different partner had their been one available but after a certain amount of time had already had his heart set of the LF by the time he got to the HW to find out there were more of them. Her heat activating her mirror scales? How does that even work? If heat THAT HOT activates them, what happens when they cool off? Canon-wise, NOTHING. But realistically it makes no sense for her to consciously choose when to turn it off. It should fade away with heat loss but it doesn't and I can't understand why for the life of me, other than it's a movie. Where did the LF come from? I mean yes she came from the HW, but why did she venture out? The HW seems to have enough fish to me, if it can comfortably sustain tons of dragons. There were other LFs to mate with. Water to drink because fish. No predators. A comfortable and safe environment. Everything that tells an animal to stay was right there so what caused her to leave? NOTHING. She just left her best chance of survival for no reason. And if the hunters somehow got into the HW, technically they could capture her, but there is no way all those dragons wouldn't defend themselves (killing all the hunters before much damage can be done) and assuming they didn't fall to their deaths on that waterfall, they would've simply come to the HW for dragons rather than make enemies with Berk. But for plot convenience, she was caught (even though she was probably invisible at that time because an ambush to sedate her didn't seem to be a thing with them until Grimmel came along). How did they muzzle her without getting hurt? Dunno, plot convenience I guess. How did they cage her? Plot convenience. If she sailed so far away in a cage, how did she find her way back to the HW? Did she leave more than once? WHY?! Her main role is nothing more than a device.
 

My second problem is TOOTHLESS HIMSELF!!! I never thought I could possibly have any problem with this adorable dragon until he up and abandoned Hiccup who was fully expecting him to come back. Dragons are intelligent, Toothless KNEW how much that boy loved him and his company and after meeting the LF one night for less than five freaking MINUTES, he chooses her. If he'd left out of mere curiosity I understand that but he didn't. And when they reached the HW Toothless had no plans to return to Hiccup. He obviously still cares otherwise why go through an army of his new subjects, abandoning them now, to save Hiccup?  *sigh* Hiccup in HTTYD 2: "Once you earn a dragon's loyalty, there is NOTHING he won't do for you." Oh really? Because the alpha abandoned him and all of Berk's other dragons (Stormfly especially shown to be extra special to him) at the sight of a female after three days planning to stay gone forever in a faraway place he knew humans had never been able to get into and has only speculated its very existence. WELL DANG TOOTHLESS, YOU ARE LOYAL! The LF would've gone back with them and gradually integrated into domestication, as she was quite intent on staying with Toothless, but hey she wanted to go home so let's lose our favorite dragon, right? If Hiccup hadn't made the effort to find the HW he likely would've never seen Toothless again (I exclude Homecoming because Toothless ONLY went to find his kids). So Toothless became out of character and disloyal to a shocking degree that I never thought possible.

 

Onto Grimmel. You kind of already know so I'll keep it simple. How did a single human eradicate an entire species? Why only one species? NFs are considered dangerous but even in Berk they had a "points system." Did Grimmel's village just not have that? If they didn't then why focus singularly on a NF? There is no way other dragons did not exist around that same territory. Unless we're talking about another Red Death, there is no reason for them to attack or raid unless that village provoked them by invading territories or threatening nests, as Hiccup clearly said they'll defend themselves but are otherwise very peaceful creatures. That village would've done well to move away once they realized they were trespassing on NF territory and I would assume the nest thing because NFs would likely defend their young to the death (in Homecoming it is made clear to us that furies offer a lot of parental care and investment in their offspring). There had to be SOME valid reason for NFs to attack. No way Grimmel didn't know this. No way the village didn't know this. Now, if other dragons had stayed away from the NF's habitat due to their defenses (which is very unlikely considering many other dragons inhabit caves alongside NFs), I could understand a strictly NF attack, but chances are other dragons shared at least some of that territory meaning the village was trespassing on a shared territory of at least two dragons species. WHY A NF? It makes no sense! Grimmel never said an actual reason beyond "I was regarded as a hero in my village." The heck man, so your life's purpose to hunt every NF? And the village NEVER got tired of seeing dozens of NF pelts or heads? This...just...what? And he knew too much about NFs. Did he stop hunting to study them or something? If he knew how far they could fly then he had to follow them, right? I'm pretty sure one didn't sit there and tell him all their secrets. I doubt they flew only over land if they eat fish which are in water, and with offspring to feed they'd have to catch more fish, and probably bigger fish if they could find some, meaning Grimmel would've had to follow them over the water via boat. He would likewise know they were not pillaging his village for food, further backing up my theory that THEY were antagonizing these dragons. Also, how did a boat keep up with a fast-flying NF and how could he tell the difference? Clearly they don't have the different colorations like the Nadder. He knew there were multiple types of fury and instantly recognized Toothless to be a NF, so these dragons most likely kept a black color. Albinism would've killed them at a young age as it would make them stick out to predators, so no white ones would exist for very long and albinism is very rare without selective breeding. His studies of the NF don't make that much sense nor does his sole eradication of a whole species make sense. 
 

It was possibly another dominance display because Toothless saw the alpha of the HW as a rival. It is SLIGHTLY possible that the LF has left the HW because she was bullied out by that current alpha, which makes him a threat in Toothless' eyes and resulted in said power grab. I doubt the LF was the alpha. For one, she wouldn't have left for no reason like she did. Two, the other dragons would've protected her at all costs. Three, Drago's Bewilderbeast was there and wouldn't likely listen to anyone but Toothless. Let alone a small female LF. So no it wasn't her. For one reason or another I think Toothless, who was already an alpha, saw another alpha of a large group that his mate belonged to and took it as a threat. That would be my explanation. Again I doubt she was bullied out of the HW as there seemed to be little no reason for violence, and what's provoking them to turn on each other? They all have this perfect environment so the alpha doesn't have too much to command and with the LF leaving, he's clearly not too concerned with runaways. But you are right in that the HW's logic is severely flawed. 
 

I don't think he was feeling lonely either, I just think that as a dominant male, the chance to mate which was not present before, finally came. As a species he did feel the urge to have a mate, as all species do to keep it going. Being a dominant male probably made it even more powerful. He may not have cared about finding other NFs, but seeing another fury definitely interested and surprised him. Now keep in mind that this is me deriving his new feelings from the natural instinct of a dominant male of any species in the existing animal kingdom.

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Absolutely, 100% agree. 

 

That's a good point.

 

Makes a lot of sense. I still hate the idea of Toothless being an alpha considering that the alphas he's interacted with have not been the kindest creatures, save for Valka's bewilderbeast. Maybe he wanted to be a better leader, but wouldn't the dragons be tired of alphas? Berk's dragons were influenced by the Red Death for practically their whole lives and then briefly enslaved by Drago's bewilderbeast. And while Valka's bewilderbeast was much kinder to the dragons she lived with, I'd think the dragons would like to have their own autonomy, because they still turned on Drago's bewilderbeast. And it was bizarre to me how in HTTYD 3 the dragons were more loyal to Toothless than their riders (Toothless ordering every single dragon on Berk into cages because of his girlfriend he met the day before). I'm not necessarily against there being a dragon that takes the lead more, but I'd think the dragons would really only need to listen to Toothless in a time of crisis, when they're going to be stronger together. Even then, it would be Hiccup initiating the leadership, since he's chief over Berk and the dragons listen to their riders rather than the other way around. I just . . . ugh, I just have so many problems with how HTTYD 3, and even HTTYD 2, was handled.

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I mean honestly Toothless DID lead them only in a time of crisis. As I said, there is a clear hierarchy among the dragons. Someone had to take over. Originally these alphas were the humans, but when humans proved to be too weak to defend the pack/flock/swarm/group/etc., a dragon decided to take over and lead. That dragon was Toothless, who thanks to Hiccup was the only dragon able to break free of the Bewilderbeast's control. So, at the time, he was the only option for leadership in a battle of strength. There has to be a strong alpha. Toothless was the only one who could fill that important role because human intelligence (our ONLY strength) was failing. That's how I saw it anyway. The urge to protect runs through all dragons, so if Toothless hadn't been the only one, I'm sure another dragon may have tried to take the lead instead. Toothless understood that he was the only one strong enough to have a remote chance of taking this thing on so he did in an act of protection for his group...or pack...or whatever it is... The most probable reason that no other dragon tried to challenge him for his new title was because he had proven his strength already and saved them from a very serious threat that they were unable to resist. Toothless still saw Hiccup as a master, mostly, but settled into the role of alpha. 
 

I just think HTTYD 3 took that role way too far and the dragons sooner ignored and abandoned their humans to obey the alpha. If it was another crisis I could understand this but they were well out of danger when they left. There was no reason for Toothless to lead them away and despite being the alpha, dragons have treated humans as superior so there was no reason for the other dragons to listen to Toothless. Now, if the humans pushed them away, that would be a good reason to listen because the true alphas have commanded them to do something for their own wellbeing (supposedly, Berk being a target only because of a pro-dragon lifestyle is pretty farfetched when they're not really interfering with anyone outside their waters, and it sounds like the hunters were sailing in their waters to be that close to Berk in the first place).

 

Edit: I'd also like to add to the part about Berk being a target. The hunters survived. Grimmel didn't but the hunters did. Grimmel's subordinates know the location of New Berk. Word has reached far and wide, apparently, that Berk has accepted dragons. Berk actually needed those dragons for protection because of attacks on them. The fact that Berk couldn't have moved closer to the HW was crazy to me. If humans can't find it, Berk is safe. Yes Valka said "greedy humans will always find a way" but that literally just means that finding the HW is inevitable and every dragon leaving their home won't protect them but for a limited period of time. Human technology will advance, as Hiccup and Grimmel both already showed, and the dragons wouldn't stand a chance without the protection of, ironically, humans. Can you imagine the dragons being able to fight against gaseous poison? Sedations? Becoming experiments? Under evolving human technology they can stay safe and healthier because medicine and an understanding of dragon anatomy will improve as well. This little plan of Hiccup's and Valka's was not thought through well enough...

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And that's exactly what I mean. It was understandable how Toothless filled the role as leader to help out the other dragons and Hiccup. I don't think it was necessarily a failing of human intelligence (at least on Berk's part) that caused Toothless to assume the role as alpha. I think it was human incompetence. In HTTYD 1 it's no wonder only Hiccup and Toothless could get rid of the RD. Toothless is a NF, a very fast, powerful dragon. The others wouldn't have made a dent. Plus, Berk didn't have dragons, so they couldn't really do anything except stand on the beach and hope for the best. But in HTTYD 2? Berk had dragons, and the humans didn't do anything but stand there and watch. The dragons could've returned to their riders so that they all could've done something about it, or the humans could've done anything but stand there. I think that was another Toofless is so speshul moment. Then in HTTYD 3 it was even worse. No one thought to help Hiccup and Toothless when they were chasing Grimmel on the LF? To give them some cover fire and distract the deathgrippers? 

 

Totally agreed. Toothless isn't the ultimate authority for all dragons, much less for Berk's. He's just the alpha when they need him to be. I just don't get why Meatlug and especially Cloudjumper regarded Toothless as the end-all be-all when it came to leadership. Cloudjumper and Valka spent, probably, the majority of their lives with each other, and they throw that friendship away because Toothless got a girlfriend he suddenly can't live without and Grimmel has an army of deathgrippers? They've faced villains like him before who were arguably more dangerous (Viggo and possibly Drago). Viggo was extremely intelligent and had singetails, and Drago had a whole armada and a dragon that can control other dragons. Sure, Grimmel may be smart enough to hunt down the NFs, but is he powerful enough to stop a whole village of different kinds of dragons? Apparently he's specialized in two species of dragons, so that produces some complications.

 

And that's yet another fantastic point. I just can't with this movie.

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I say human intelligence because no amount of human technology would be able to help. Our big ol' brain wasn't there yet but like I said, would be in the future. At that time our options were so limited that even if we did have a wonderful idea that would help, nobody had the time to make it. And let's face facts, Hiccup would be the only capable person to do that and he was a bit too preoccupied for metalworking and trial and error (I say metal because wood wouldn't do crap against that massive thing). I doubt Toothless' normal shots would be anywhere near powerful enough to actually hurt the Bewilderbeast beyond its tusks. As weird as that sounds, he's clearly resistant to MASSIVE amounts of dragon fire and I think that's why Toothless only aimed for the tusk. After seeing just how ineffective everyone else was, he charged himself up because he wouldn't have been effective either. 
 

I COMPLETELY agree that humans could've helped with the Deathgrippers!!! Those dragons weren't still caged, and they didn't seem to be sedated either. We saw what happens when they're stuck with sedations when the LF woke up randomly groaning in...idk pain maybe? Or just the effects we're wearing off and making her feel lethargic for like ten seconds? So no I don't think they were in the same state the LF had been in. There wasn't much reason for humans to not help. And yes I am aware that the only ones able to help were shorthanded staff that day (Valka, Astrid, Fishlegs, etc.) but they still could've done something. Maybe those Deathgrippers wouldn't have caught up so easily to a FAST FLYING DRAGON??? Although now that I say that, they were both probably flying slower since the LF was clearly not in the right state of mind yet and one wrong move could down her, maintaining a relatively slow-speed chase. You keep saying Cloudjumper but in the dragon hierarchy older dragons aren't the alphas like some animals in the animal kingdom. It would make sense, but in the animal kingdom elders are often left behind while the strongest takes over. If Cloudjumper alone was in charge I'm not sure he could protect literally all of Berk's dragons the way Toothless did (only thanks to Hiccup, of course, which is why Hiccup is more of an alpha than Toothless).

 

I actually loved the first movie. We didn't know Toothless' skills back then, aside from what vikings have always known and only seen. Why is Toothless the only NF? We don't know, it's a lovely mystery to speculate! The SLOW bond and the PACED training was an absolute delight! :) I mean I give high praise to the first movie. There is no instant bond that takes place like with the LF. Toothless takes all day just to let Hiccup touch him and even then, made him work for it. XD ...But the second movie, I can tolerate for the reasons that I said, about Toothless' biological survival mechanism against cold climates. In fact the second movie had wonderful soundtracks and the reflection in the eyes, OH that was amazing! And the Bewilderbeast battle (between the Valka's and Drago's) was epic and outdid the Red Death's battle with Toothless and Hiccup. The third movie...well there were some good qualities but so many things were wrong that I just...ugh. I don't mind watching it again. But. Just. When certain scene come in it irritates me. Like Grimmel having literally no reason to attack only NFs. Red Feath was provoked into attack. Drago wanted peace through conquering. Grimmel wanted to kill NFs and that is the only reason. Made it his life's goal. What the heck. Does this mean he's some sort of psychopath or something? His only reason for hating Berk was that they were pro-dragon and literally NO ONE ELSE had that reason because they didn't freaking care! They might not understand it, but they didn't care because Berk didn't use those dragons hostile takeovers. They kept to themselves until hunters sailed into or close to their waters. It's their territory, they can do what they want and they don't like seeing dragons getting hurt like that. 
 

WHICH BRINGS ME TO ANOTHER THING! Why are the hunters so dumb? Where is their leader? Shouldn't we know a little more? Like are they trading dragon to sell them, kill them, or for a bounty? Are they shipping them to Drago 2.0 or something? What's their deal?

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Shiny the Night Fury plasma blasted my subject. Sorry!

Whew, sorry for being gone for 2 days. I've been so busy with schoolwork it's unreal.

 

That's true. I still find it bizarre how they just stood there doing cool poses instead of trying to do something. I feel like it was a callback to the first movie, but at least in the first movie there wasn't anything Berk could do.

 

About his firepower. I honestly am not too sure alpha mode was necessary, only because of how powerful we've seen his shots when facing the red death. According to the wiki (yes, I'm going back to the wiki, lol), the RD has an armor of 30 and the bewilderbeast has an armor of 38. The RD's high armor makes sense to me since she's got thick skin because she's living inside of a volcano. And it makes sense how the bewilderbeast might have what's considered armor on the low end for a dragon of its size because it's a tidal class dragon. Both the RD and the B have heavily armored heads. If Toothless could snap the RD's head to the side with one blast to the face, or, heck, knock the whole dragon over, I think he might've been able to eventually wear down the tusks without alpha mode. And if he'd commanded the other dragons to aim for the tusks, they would've both probably broken off at some point even sooner. I just think alpha mode was a plot device to make the movie end sooner.

 

Even more human incompetence, lol. And by Cloudjumper, I just meant him being leader because he's Valka's dragon, and Valka seems to be the one who's the real "alpha" of the bewilderbeast and his dragons. She rescues them, leads them, and takes care of them. Cloudjumper would be associated with her, so the dragons might look up to him more, kind of like how the gang's dragons look up to Toothless in a sense. But with Valka's dragons, their loyalty is more to her since she's the only human they've interacted with. So I don't think Cloudjumper would be their protector. That was the bewilderbeast's job. Plus, all the dragons should work together to protect the whole flock and not just rely on one dragon to do it for them.

 

Same!! I adore the first movie. The second was all right to me, but I still really enjoyed it and still do. The third is garbage. It's lazily-written, cash-grabbing garbage. Grimmel was horrible, the LF was horrible, Toothless was horrible. It ruined my childhood and my respect for Dreamworks, that's for sure.

 

I think they're dumb to make Grimmel look better. How awesome would it have been for many warlords from all over the world with the intelligence and cunning of Viggo to be the main villains and really put Berk to the test? But no, we just get one NF hunter and a bunch of warlords that are completely shallow and unexplained.

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I fail to see the need for a subject.

I like what you said about Night Furies acting more like feral domestic cats than panthers, I agree they seem much more instincually sociable than panthers. 

however:

Wolves fight to become alpha, there can be only one m.ated pair, and the omega is constantly bullied.

 

The idea of the Alpha/Beta/Omega structure in wolves is now being reassesed. The idea came from observations of wolves in captivity instead of a natural setting. People are finding that in the wild, wolf packs more like are familial groups, and are most often led by the parents. (I believe the rest of the wolves in a pack are more or less equals.)

 

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Shiny the Night Fury plasma blasted my subject. Sorry!

I knew about the packs being familial and that the parents are the alpha pair, but there is still fighting among the group. Plus, there are other wolves to worry about. A loner could come in a k.ill or dominate the alpha, or the pack could be disbanded because of a rival clan. I'm just saying that I doubt NFs would be so aggressive with each other considering how Toothless and the LF have interacted. Plus, the LFs in the Hidden World seemed to have respected Toothless and the LF just fine. NFs might still be territorial, but I think that'd be more of the case with rival dragon species like the w death. 

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I fail to see the need for a subject.

  I'm sorry if what said came out wrong.

 

  I like your ideas about the Night Fury, and I agree that we don't have any reason to belive that they would be

 particularly aggressive with each other in the wild.

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Shiny the Night Fury plasma blasted my subject. Sorry!

Oh, don't worry! Nothing you said seemed to sound wrong. We all have our own opinions, and I made this post to be a sort of discussion board anyway.

 

Thank you! I don't have everything right about the dragon, but I just wanted to make my own version that was more true to the animals it's compared to and that was less OP than how they're presented in the movies and even in the shows.

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On alpha mode, I think it was necessary for him to defeat the Bewilderbeast. The only way Toothless killed the Red Death was the Red Death was loading up a shot, had huge amounts of flammable gas ready to set on fire and launch it at Toothless & Hiccup. Before the Red Death fired, Toothless fired a shot into the Red Death's open mouth that was filled with flammable gas. That basically set fire down the throat of the Red Death. I do not think alpha mode is really all that realistic.

 

I think the stealth could be more than 1 to 18 for the NF. It's not like it's going around stompin the ground like a quaken. The NF is like a cat, and one of cats main abilities is stealth. Maybe the NF's stealth sould be 3/18.

 

 

Good rant XD

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While that is true, I honestly think they added the alpha mode as a way to finish the story faster rather than making the main characters work for the ending like in HTTYD 1. Alpha mode was essentially a cheap power up to make Toothless even more special and give the creators an excuse to make him alpha over the dragons. This doesn't really make sense considering Hiccup actually goes through a journey to accepting responsibility and growing up, and going through a whole arc to achieve that. Meanwhile Toothless gets to be leader over the dragons for no reason other than he's a NF and he's a chief's dragon. If anything, Skullcrusher or Cloudjumper should be alpha, Skullcrusher because he has a natural tendency to protect dragons and people, or Cloudjumper because he's most familiar with the bewilderbeast's dragons and can keep them in line. Or the creators could've gone the "no alpha" route because where has mingling with alpha species of dragons ever gotten Berk anywhere? I mean, Hiccup lost a leg and Stoick was k.illed by a mind-controlled dragon. Wouldn't they want to stop entertaining the idea of an alpha and just let the dragons be completely loyal to their own humans? It doesn't make sense to me how Stormfly--and even Meatlug--is more loyal to Toothless than she is to Astrid. Basically, the reason I would get rid of the alpha mode is because I wouldn't use it as a plot device. 

 

For the stealth, I just used 1 as a filler until I could come up with a reasonable number, but it looks like you did that for me, lol.

 

I was going more for a theory page than a rant, but thanks anyway. I will admit I did rant a little in this thread, lol.

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I'm glad that not everyone is blinded by Toothless's perfectness. I would have trashed the Alpha Mode and lightning cloak ability, too. You did a very good job with your theories and I'm quite impressed with the amount of time you must have put into this. Although you did mention you aren't an expert in any of the fields you discussed, I think your logic is very close to being spot-on and I can't find many flaws to it.

Also, I agree that the Alpha Mode just existed to finish the story quicker.

Another thing that I wonder about is how Toothless or didn't get fried by lightning. I know that Toothless has heat resistant scales, but Night Furies supposedly bad with cold climates. This could mean that his scales are good thermal conductors, which would mean that any heat around him would be absorb quickly and therefore fry him if he was exposed to high temperatures.

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Thanks! I probably have a few flawed theories, especially in the flight aspect of the NF (I keep going over in my head how the wings, secondary wings, and tail fins would all interact with the dragon and the wind in flight, and so far I think I might have found a way to better incorporate the tail fins in steering), but that's to be expected. Yeah, it took 4 hours of nonstop thinking, typing, and research to lay this thing out.

 

Yup! It's any wonder that the NF can handle heat that is equal to the surface of the sun. For the skrill, it makes sense. That's why I'm like "Isn't the skrill supposed to have better armor than the NF?" because for the stats on the wiki, skrills have an armor of 10 while NFs have armor of 18. It doesn't line up at all. Toothless should not have lived when he was struck. I hope the creators didn't add the lightning cloaking because of the "offspring of lightning and death" bit, because I think that it applies to how their eggs hatch. But honestly, I just think the vikings dubbed the NF the "offspring of lightning and death" because they can fly extremely fast and they're very dangerous.

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The Skrill is the actual "unholy offspring of lightning and death itself".

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Honestly! Especially since skrills supposedly travel with storms.

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Toothless/Night Furies are WAY too OP in my opinion. I agree that Alpha Mode/Lightning-Alpha Mode should both be scrapped. Like, I get that Toothless is the face of HTTYD, but srsly? First Skrill, and now Changewing as well?

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That's exactly why I wanted to "fix" it. Could you explain about the skrill and the changewing? I'm just not following.

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He means the new powers Toothless took on. The lightning bolt which is accosiated with the Skrill, the the camouflage which is associate with the Changewing (but also the LF and she's still a fury so I'm keeping that one in mind).

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Gotcha! I totally agree with that. I mean, I'm fine with the LF turning invisible because it'd make sense since they're pretty exposed with their glittery scales. But the fact that they had to add that ability to the NF was unnecessary considering they're nocturnal and black. 

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Is "Alpha mode" really nightfury spesific though? Everyone always assumes it's a nightfury spesific ability but it's not like we've seen any other dragon in the situation Toothless found himself in. For all we know it could just be the dragon version of whatever happens in those storys where someone's loved one is trapped in a car or something and that person lifts the car all by themselves to save them.

 

 

(The lightning thing and having a button to activate the split spines was annoying to me though. Espessully the button. And I always prefer a using old tools in new ways over just....getting a new ability to solve a problum. Still, I could've sworn there were even a few early sources hinting that any dragon can do the "alpha mode" thing and it's mostly the fans and games that ran off with it and used it as a nightfury thing)

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Honestly, I have no idea. The alpha mode being an adrenaline rush would be very understandable, but since it was a used as a dominance display and can now be activated by Toothless on command, I'm starting to think it just applies to him. Plus, there's been many times in the shows and the movies where Toothless was probably under loads of stress, yet he didn't activate an alpha mode. I am 100% sure alpha mode was used as a cheap power up to defeat the bewilderbeast.

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Well there are also many times where people's loved ones d.ied because they couldn't lift the car while other situations have produced the strange not well known how it works result.

 

But even if it's a display that doesn't nessisarilly mean it's nigthfury spesific. When speed stingers become alpha they appear to grow more markings so there's already one known dragon that goes through physical changes in responce to rank. It could be that Toothless' ability to activate "alpha mode" willingly came only after he earned the alpha position. He had already been a little bit of a leader in Berk for a good couple years before creating this display. Him actually lighting up may have been something that had been building inside him for a while but he'd never known he could activate (or perhaps he needed to hit a certian age for the trait that had been growing to activly become active).

 

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That's a good point. And maybe the alpha ability is only found within dragons that form groups, so the NF having that if they formed clans would work. I'm still a little wary about the idea, just because I know it wasn't used for lore, worldbuilding, or character arcs. But putting it into that context makes a lot of sense. I'd just get rid of the split spines that come along with it.

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Yeah, no. The split spines were dumb. Espessully with the button to activate them.

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I totally agree with this! I'm glad that I'm not the only one who can see flaws with Toothless' character. 

I don’t like how he gets new abilities so he can just impress his girlfriend. It would be like a man getting a six pack every time he wanted to impress a lady. I don’t think they should have good armor because they’d have no need for it if they were so fast. 

They don’t need to attract lightning if their blasts can blow off (already weakened)bewilderbeast tusks. I kind of feel like on this one they’re disrespecting the Skrill just for the sake of making the Night Fury even better. And don’t even get me started on Light Furies*.

I love how you compared NFs to different animals! It makes their behavior much easier to predict and recreate. Personally, I think that NFs should be a bit less pack dependent because, in general, they don’t seem too dependent.

The speed thing bugs me. Barely faster than the speed of sound is not faster than nearly the speed of light. Hiccup couldn’t survive riding Toothless with all the speed and lightning attraction issues.

I kind of do agree with the 6 shot limit because the blasts are powerful/unstable enough that they would be hard to create, much less have an abundance of.

I agree with the stealth thing. Night Furies are stealthy, but LOUD. I don’t see why they are considered so sneaky if they make a SCREEEEEE sound whenever they’re divebombing you.

 

Armor should be more like 5 or 6. They need enough to withstand friction from flying and divebombing, but not more than necessary. Plus, an arrow brought Toothless down. On the other hand, I don’t think skrills should be brought down by arrows because they’re made of biological metal.

Alpha Mode: There is literally NO REASON an already OP creature would need this.

I do think that NFs should be agile, but that’s because of their streamlined, flexible shape. However, they could not change directions while divebombing.

The split fins bug me too. They’re unnecessary.

Overall lesson: Mother nature only makes things good enough, not perfect. The Night Fury could not exist because their unnecessary traits would breed out eventually. I think the modified version is more realistic.

*Bonus Light Fury rant

Light Furies couldn’t survive at all. They glitter like disco balls and stand out like a pelican in a group of flamingos. I think the invisibility thing is fine because they’d genuinely need it to survive and some materials do become reflective at high temperatures. It doesn’t make sense that Light Furies lasted longer than Night Furies. If it is because of their evasiveness, that should be countered by weakened shot power and shot limit.

 

 

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Biologically speaking, OP creatures are impossible. As soon as something is good enough to survive and pass on genes, it stops improving until a rival species pushes it to improve. If you have no idea what I'm saying, look up "theory of evolution". For example, say cheetahs can run 50 mph. Their prey can only run 45. Therefore, only the fastest of the prey would survive, passing on the features that make them quick to their offspring. As a result, cheetahs would need to get faster to catch their prey. This happens over thousands, even millions of years. But if the prey physically couldn't get bigger, the cheetah would cease to get faster as well. This is the reason that there are no OP creatures in nature. They are only good enough. A perfect species would lose the traits it didn't need to survive.

The point I'm trying to make is that all realistic animals have weaknesses.

P. S. If the Night Fury has echolocation, it means it has bad eyesight. You only need one, unless the Night Fury is awake 24/7 or spends exactly half their time in a cave. It would be more likely that they would develop good night vision.

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On the topic of echolocation that's not always the case. Bats actually have pretty good eyesight but still use echolocation. Toothless may be able to do the same but does seem to be able to see equally well on the dark despite his eyes not being as reflective as they should be to have such a good "night eye." I hypothesize that dark areas are his natural habitat until the search for food arises. I would say migration but NFs can't fly too far for too long, so a NF migration would be unlikely to occur. This also means that he was probably pushed from his home, caught in the Red Death's mind control web, and never went back because he constantly had a reason to stay (the Red Death was the first reason and his loyalty to Hiccup became his second). Now, because he's PROBABLY away from his natural habitat, there may not even be a need for echolocation and as a result he grew to rely more on his eyes. This is speculation, not fact, though.

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Creatures that live in the dark tend to have huge eyes that don't have much color in them. In addition, some underground animals don't have eyes at all. I did a bit of research and discovered that many animals who live below ground have pure black eyes (to get the maximum amount of light). Also, caves are chilly, typically around 48 degrees Fahrenheit, and a cave near Berk would probably be colder, which would conflict with the Night Fury's sensitivity to the cold.

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Almost everything I agree with. The only thing I don't completly is the part about them not being stealthy while flying fast, due to the fact that they whistle (I'm totally gonna plagarize this next part of the argument because I don't remember WHO I heard it from but it seems totally legit to me).

 

NF's actually do NOT always whistle when flying quickly, it's really only while dive bombing. The question asked was WHY would they whistle? As you said, it's like yelling to a deer before you shoot it. Well, maybe that's exactly why they do it. Remember in HTTYD 1 when Toothless made his first appearance diving the tower? When the monstrous nightmare heard the NF whistle, he immidietly took off. Perhaps the NF whistles to warn his allies, "Hey, move aside, I'm about to blow some stuff up and you don't want to be anywhere near it."

 

 

 

Other than that I agree with everything (at least as far as I can remember atm). The alpha mode is stupid and a cheap move, the whole lightning cloak thing is another garbage ability that he didn't need and makes no sense, and in general NFs have turned from a species I loved to the dragon I hate most in HTTYD. That's why I pretty much ignore everything in regards to the NF during and after HTTYD 2.

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That's a very interesting point! I think I read somewhere that part of the whistle is the NF actually charging their shots while dive bombing. Granted, we've really only heard the whistle in HTTYD 1 and the beginning of HTTYD 2, so I don't think anything can really be confirmed. Then again, things whistle when they're moving fast, just because of how the air around it moves. Plus, when something can go supersonic, it's going to be super loud when it passes. So maybe NFs are more stealthy when they fly towards something head-on, since they'll be flying faster than sound, and then you hear the boom when they go by. But with the way I'm fixing this dragon, they won't be able to fly that fast. Maybe close, but I don't think they'd survive supersonic with the armor I gave them.

 

Plus, I'm not entirely sure if Toothless was under the Red Death's control when he was attacking Berk, and I mean fully under its control. If he was, then I doubt he had any regard for the life of the m nightmare, as the Red Death didn't really seem to value the lives of the dragons she enslaved unless they had food for her at the ready (plus she ate a gronkle). If he wasn't, then that would be an interesting theory.

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It might not have to be a willing thing for it to have evolved as a warning. It might just be automatic. Espessully in the social pack species this is theorized to be.

The nightfury is discribed as "Never steals food." when Hiccup is listing off its traits which could certainly support him not being 100% under control as well and more interested in protecting the inslaved dragons but it wouldn't actually be needed for that whistle to be a warning.

Nightfurys might not use that super dive for hunting at all. A regular normal flightspeed blast seems plenty enough to k.ill any boar or other land animal they might be stalking as Nightfurys have never been shown to be dragon eatters. 

If that high speed dive is only for combat then it doesn't need to be willingly done and it may very well be to warn allies or even to tell preditors to back off.

Animals don't typically TRY to k.ill each other if they don't have to. Even animals that don't like each other. When two big preditors fight for territory there's often a lot of showing off and intimidation along with the actual attacks.

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Yeah, but what I'm saying is that the whistle when it's flying isn't a warning. It charging its shot is. Big things whistle when they fly fast. And while the NF doesn't have a jet engine, it would still make noise when it flew fast, especially when dive-bombing and while charging a plasma blast. It couldn't be stealthy anyway even if it tried. That's why it's black. It's scarier to hear the omen of d.eath and not know where it will strike than to just see a NF flying around making a bunch of noise and take it down with a bola or an arrow. I don't think the whistle or the noise a NF makes when it's charging its shot is an intentional warning. I think it just happens and there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

That is true. While I don't think Toothless was completely under the RD's control either, I remember someone mentioning how the RD might've used the NF as a sort of distraction. If there's a super fast and super powerful dragon attacking your village, I don't think you'll be concerned with the pudgy gronkle stealing one of your sheep.

 

Yes, but just know that I'm fixing this dragon in a way that tries to make as much sense as possible. And while a plasma blast could definitely easily kill some wild animal in the forest, we still don't exactly know the diet of the NF aside from fish. That's why I'd incorporate the diving with fishing, because we've only seen Toothless ever eat fish. Plus, the dive bomb was described as the NF's main attack. Their teeth do not appear to be the sharpest, nor are their claws. NFs were designed to fly, so I'm just trying to account for that.

 

By the way, I'm not saying that the enemies around a NF don't take the noise as a warning. I just don't think the NF makes the noise as a warning on purpose except maybe for when it charges a shot. Whistling during high-speed flight happens naturally. The NF can decide whether or not to produce a shot, but they can't control the volume of noise it produces, same as the whistling. It just is what it is, I guess.

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I don't think the Red Death even had any control other than threatening them. The dragons all flew away and cowered when they were near. The only indication we have that the red death DOES have actual mind control is when Hiccup is giving Astrid a ride and Toothless (realizing where he is) starts following along with his old habit and flying with the flock of dragons to the nest.

 

I think that's all it is though; memories. He's not OBLIGED to follow the red death, but it's his instict. None of the dragons seemed to be under the Red Death's control, otherwise they wouldn't fly away when it wanted to eat them, or when it came bursting out of the rock at the final battle. They're just scared of the Red Death, and don't know where else they would go or what other purpose they would have if they disobeyed their alpha.

 

 

And yeah... Toothless going the speed of sound is literally impossible. No living creature can fly that fast. The fastest I can think of (and is probobly similar speed to a diving NF) is a perigrine falcon at 186 mph. You need to go 761.2 mph to break the sound barrier. They would need to fly over FOUR TIMES as fast to go the speed of sound! In addition, how would the rider survive? And another addition, how do the vikings even know what the speed of sound IS?

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Eh, I mean, I think the RD did have control over the dragons, but it wasn't to the extent of the bewilderbeast. Instead of directly controlling each individual dragon's actions, the RD might've just inserted a very strong instinct to serve her or retrieve food. She might've not even had the energy to control them again since she was so impatient to eat that she swallowed a whole gronkle. Or she might've sent all the dragons out to get more food for her while saving a snack for herself, lol.

 

I think she's instilling the instinct to the dragons on purpose, but she can't make them follow her every wish and to such a specific extent like the bewilderbeast. Plus, the dragons that served the RD proably did so their whole lives, while I think Toothless might've gotten snared by her at a much older age. Plus, with his intelligence, he might've been able to shake off that overwhelming more successfully than the other dragons.

 

Totally agreed. That might be why they had such higher armor to begin with, but since I'm making it to where they can't fly that fast, they won't need it. And honestly! How could the vikings know how fast sound travels? They wouldn't even have the time to find out since they were supposedly at war with dragons for hundreds of years.