What is green/red death a Titan of?

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So when Valka saw the bones of red death she said "what a magnificent Titan" meaning that green death and red death are just huge titans. So that brings the question: what is the non titan version? And if there is a non Titan version, what's stopping us from getting it? Now don't say "we can't get legendary dragons" oh be quiet. We got the screaming death for goodness sake. Screaming deaths only appear every one hundred years. So why can't we just get the non Titan version of green death?

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Hmmmmm... thats a good question.

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It'd Just Be a Smaller Version of the Same Dragon - & Still Big

I know the games have made much confusion about this with their non-canon Pokemon-esque way of treating dragon development (including the part where they shortening the term "Titan Wing" to just "Titan"), but according to canon sources in the franchise, there are five stages of the development: the egg, the Tiny Tooth, the Short Wing, the Broad Wing, and the Titan Wing. In terms of what they look like, they pretty much have the same features, though their horns and spikes seem to continue to grow, but there is a noticeable size difference at each stage. So the Broad Wing form of the Red Death would just look like a Titan Wing, only smaller and with slightly shorter spikes and horns. Not really much else to see. And in terms of making a trainable dragon, it still wouldn't be enough. Even that smaller version of the Red Death would still be massive! Even a half-sized Red Death is still a small hill all by itself.

 

Now there was that time the TV show went kind non-canon, too (actually, one of many times they did that) and called the Screaming Death a Titan Wing. In that case, I think the term "Titan Wing" was decided by those show writers to mean "extremely big dragon," which would include ones that the Rise of Berk game has deemed "Legendary" (like the Red Death species). In that use of the word, there isn't really a non-Titan Wing Red Death.

 

My best guess for what could have happened with them slipping up and calling the Screaming Death a Titan Wing even though it was hardly a Short Wing (aside from just the fact that they "slipped up") is that perhaps the Screaming Death, even at that young age, was already the size that a regular Whispering Death would be at the Titan Wing stage, so Fishlegs referred to it that way because he knew it was a Whispering Death but it was far too big to be an ordinary Whispering Death. In that case, we'd back to the first justification for what a non-Titan Wing Red Death would be...just a smaller version of the same dragon.

 

Now I do fall into the "we shouldn't have the extremely big dragons in this game," personally, and before anyone says "But the Screaming Death!" I actually point to the Screaming Death to demonstrate why we shouldn't do that. I don't think it ever should have been added; it's so small that it's almost embarrassing. It hardly reaches Short Wing size in it's Titan Wing form in the game. If they couldn't even get the Boneknapper or Stormcutter to its full size without causing problems, I don't think they ever should have even attempted the Screaming Death. I don't want to see that happen to the Red Death, Foreverwing, Bewilderbeast, Purple Death, Ripwrecker, Submaripper, Shellfire, Luminous Krayfin or whatever other gigantic dragons they have. If we do have these large dragons in the game, I hope from now on they just stick to how they did it with the Green Death and the Luminous Krayfin in the expansion packs. I'm all for seeing more of these massive dragons as part of expansion packs...a Foreverwing or Bewilderbeast would be amazing!

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Well we're not seeing the

Well we're not seeing the foreverwing in this game since it doesn't make an appearance besides in the rise of berk. And they might not put in a bewilderbeast because of its difficult size and the detail. And honestly, it's seems like the Screaming Death was meant to be a titan wing whispering death. 

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Rise of Berk, Foreverwings, Bewilderbeasts, and Titan Wings

There's no reason not to have a Foreverwing. Most dragons only appeared in Rise of Berk before they made an appearance in School of Dragons. If that was our criteria for what could and couldn't appear in this game, we wouldn't have the Woolly Howl, Shockjaw, Sand Wraith, Shivertooth, Groncicle, Tide Glider, Sweet Death, and Thunderpede, and they wouldn't have made the Sword Stealer and Hackatoo options in their "new dragon" polls. All canon dragons have a chance in this game. And even if for some reason being only in Rise of Berk somehow made a dragon off-limits, it's not true that the Foreverwing is only in Rise of Berk. It actually appears in The Serpent's Heir, the HTTYD graphic novel that's supposed to be a tie-in to the second and third films and which is co-written by Dean Deblois, the director of the films, and Richard Hamilton, one of the writers for the TV show. In fact, a total of five Foreverwings appear in that comic.

 

As for rendering the Bewilderbeast, the game handled the Green Death just fine. I don't think a Bewilderbeast would be beyond them. It would just have to be something quest-specific like it was with the Green Death and not something we return to. Or we could have it like we did with the Luminous Krayfin where we interact with a baby and later a juvenile. The Luminous Krayfin is supposed to grow nearly as big as a Bewilderbeast, but so far, we've only interacted with a young one so the game has never had to show one at its full size. Like I said, expansion packs. Got to love what we can do with those expansion packs!

 

For a Screaming Death to be the Titan Wing version of a Whispering Death, it would have to have been born a regular Whispering Death and grown into a Titan Wing. That's what a Titan Wing Whispering Death is - a regular Whispering Death that grew into a Titan. But the Screaming Death is born already mutated from the regular form. It's a variant. It doesn't start out a regular Whispering Death, and a regular Whispering Death can't grow into it.

 

An example of the show using the "Titan Wing" term correctly can actually be seen in RTTE, where we encounter the Titan Wing Monstrous Nightmare. It's more or less just a normal Monstrous Nightmare, only bigger with longer horns and spikes and hotter fire. There's also Sparks & Spew, the Titan Wing Hideous Zippleback that appeared in the story To Tame a Titan that was posted by DreamWorks on HTTYD's official Facebook and Tumblr pages. Sparks & Spew looks like a completely normal Hideous Zippleback...only huge. Titan Wings are a not an alternate form of a type of dragon but rather something a perfectly ordinary dragon grows into if they live long enough. If the game used "Titan" correctly when referring to the Red Death, they were referring to the Red Death being of considerable size and age, even for its species...which would make sense, given we know it's been plaguing Berk for at least 300 years (probably longer, but that's when humans arrived) and it is pretty darn big.

 

What happened with the Screaming Death was the show kind of forgetting its own canon (it does that a lot, I kind of ignore it at this point) and used Titan Wing to just mean "a type of dragon that's extremely large." The franchise slips up and uses "Titan Wing" this way a few other times later as well, but since it normally uses it to mean a development stage, it's kind of a canon contradiction when they do that. Nevertheless, this is probably what the game did when it referred to the Red Death as a Titan. And under this meaning, there is no "non-Titan" form; there's only Titan Wing species or variants. And  in that case, the Red Death counts as a Titan because...well, you know, it's the franchise's Godzilla. XD

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Honestly they're just

Honestly they're just extremely confusing with this whole thing. Like is alpha toothless an new sorta alpha stage or a Titan wing? Because according to Rise of Berk it's a Titan wing stage, but in Sod it's a "alpha stage". Which is too confusing to think about right now, and I'm not going to mention it. Because I'm pretty sure, due to a quote I once found, it's not a titan stage. Because there is only one minor change, and apparently it's what happens to dragons challenging an alpha.

 

oh my. If you know me, you know I'm a stickler to canon. But this is the most confusing canon I have ever seen. And I've seen horrible canon before, but seriously. WHAT IS GOING ON ANYMORE

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Inconsistencies and Glowy Toothless

I know, right? They can't even remember their own lore half the time! XD

 

Pretty much since the TV show came on the scene - especially after RTTE - canon has been very convoluted with a lot of contradictions. (The show couldn't even go along with the fact that Hiccup and Astrid were in a relationship, which...I mean, I thought the romance happened too quickly in the first film, but...it's still a plot point that they just...ignored? It's weird. Dean Deblois even said that HTTYD2 Hiccup and Astrid have been in a relationship for 5 years, so I mean, we weren't imagining it in the first movie. Whatever.) Now there were little things here and there at first, like the Dragon Manual being renamed the Book of Dragons in the short by the same name, but things really got weird when it came time for the show. Then the games came along and had to adjust things for gameplay's sake and...then it was really weird. (I'm also a canon stickler and have been closely tracking this franchise for 7 years now, and there have been so many things that contradict...) When there's conflicting bits of information, I usually just go with "movies trump everything; then the books connected to the movie and director, including graphic novels he wrote; then the shorts; then the show and Dark Horse comics; then stories published on the Tumblr and Facebook; and then the games." It's all technically canon, though, so really you can pick and choose what you want to obey. But yeah, Titan Wings were something they just refuse to be consistent with for some reason. (Though I can't say it irked me really until it became an excuse to copy Pokemon in the games, which is weird because I'm usually more chill about the games changing things up because I know they're doing it for the sake of having game goals. It's just...the dragons are just so true to real-life animals, and then they go that route? ...I'm probably the only one who's so weirdly peeved by that.)

 

So the thing with Toothless, I can actually speak to that and hopefully clear it up. In School of Dragons, we have the "Alpha Toothless Skin." In Rise of Berk, we have "Titan Toothless." The Titan Toothless is purely because Rise of Berk installed their "train your dragon up to Titan" thing (it was your fault, Rise of Berk! You started it!), and when they did that, they had to do something to give Toothless the same feature. They had this option for all dragons, but you can't change Toothless, so they were kind of in a weird position. So they decided that if you train Toothless to a "Titan," he'll have the weird glowing effect he had in HTTYD2. Glowing Toothless is not actually a Titan, but that's how RoB was able to get him to work with how they set up the game without changing the Toothless we know and love. (Looking back on it, what they probably should have done is just not changed him when he leveled up to a Titan, which is the case with the other Unique dragons in the game.)

 

SoD is actually far more accurate in this case by calling the glowing his "Alpha Toothless Skin," and this is actually pretty accurate. According to To Berk and Beyond, the (pretty awesome) activity book, Toothless did do that glowy thing because he was challenging the alpha at the time, and he apparently didn't know he could do that until then. We could interpret that to mean he just unlocked a new Night Fury power, but in both SoD and The Serpent's Heir, he only does it again when he's telling another dragon to back down and respect their alpha. So it's kind of like a dominance display used only by someone of his rank, as confirmed by To Berk and Beyond. And according to To Berk and Beyond, any dragon will show a unique alpha-dominance display if they challenge for the alpha position, not just Night Furies (which leads me to wonder what other types of dragons would look like if they challenged the alpha. So many epic possibilities!) In each case, this dominance display is a temporary display thing that means the dragon is unlocking their hottest fire or most acidic acid or whatever thing they use for their power, and they go back to "normal" afterward. This is opposed to a Titan Wing in any of its canon forms, in which becoming a Titan is a permanent change that the dragon can't revert back from.

 

So, uh...yeah, no Titan Toothless. Only sometimes-glowy Alpha Toothless. XD

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