Foxy Thoughts | What makes a dragon untrainable?

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OwlsBane
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"With patience, any dragon can be trained."

 

This is my statement to the dragons of the Httyd world, from the biggest and badest to the ones who just want a little attention - or so I hoped. Turns out, not all dragons are trainable no matter how much I want them to be. Notable dragons in the 'no train' category are the Smothering Smokebreath & the Snow Wraith, but what I'm wondering is why. Why can't these legendary beasts be trained?

 

Now before anyone goes quoting Hiccup on his training skills, just remember Season 3 : Episode 13 - Defenders of the Wing part 1.

 

Heather: "So Hiccup can really train any dragon?"

Astrid: "Well sort of. Everything except Whispering Deaths, Changewings -"

Hiccup: "And Speed Stingers."

 

To that quote, I say ha! Look no further than this picture right here.

 

 

Groundsplitter seems pretty calm to me. Way to go Alvin!

 

Then we have this precious gem.

 

 

No Speed Stingers eh?

 

Then take the Deathsong. Sure, the adult Deathsong was a unruly, but then came this little guy, who was trained by song.

 

 

Technically speaking, it's possible that one could train a Deathsong by singing a perfect tune.

 

Of course, there is a difference between bonding and being able to actually ride it. There are cases of an agreement, as with Hiccup and the Legendary Skrill.

 

 

While the Skrill was now in an agreement, that didn't mean Hiccup could get a ride anytime soon as the Skrill preferred to be free rather than in the presence of more humans - understandably.

 

 

So again, why can't every dragon be trained? I'm sure that in cases like the Skrill, with time, the dragon could be trained by the more experienced dragon riders. Wouldn't this be true with dragons like the Snow Wraith and Smokebreath, if one could find that special spark like with the Deathsong?

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grumpyforlife2
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O.O I have been summoned

O.O you have summoned me. I have wondered the same thing for ages! If you look it up, a snow wraith is said to be untrainable. But why? I've seen no solid evidence WHY they are untrainable. Sure, they are vicious and relentless, but the death song is too! But yet they managed to train a baby (for the most part at least). So why is the snow wraith untrainable? I have a theory as of how to train one. Just like a death song, you have to train one from birth. It might take forever, cause parenting is just har.d work, but in the end you'd get a vicious friend ready to take down anyone for you (And yes, snow wraiths are known to be loyal. If you watched the second episode with snow wraiths in it you'll see toothless shot down one of the snow wraiths. Well, instead of escaping, the others went back for it, rescuing it from hiccup and the Dragon riders. If that's not loyal, I don't know what is) i think it would work, but I think all the riders would be too chicken to even try. Cowards :P

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Life is gray & dull, & all i see is dark,

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"It was vicious, relentless, and impossible to see in the white out. The Snow Wraith."

~Gobber translating Gothi's text

 

"This dragon has notoriously poor eyesight and uses thermal censors to locate its prey.

It camouflages itself in the snow because if it can't see you, it doesn't want you to see it!"

~Dragons: Rise of Berk

 

 

   

 

"Snow Wraiths have no known vulnerabilities, making them 

supremely formidable force to be rekoned with during battle."

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i have WAY to many adopted dragons to put in my siggy.  because of that,

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Good job, you made it to the end!  Snowdust says goodbye! :D

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WhispertheWolf
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Trainability

Do I have enough time to comment on this? ...I have time to comment on this. XD

 

What makes an animal trainable? Well, any animal can have habits trained into it in a controlled environment, but that doesn't mean it can form a bond with a human trainer, which is most likely what is being referred to here. And there are two positions necessary for that to happen:

 

1) The animal must be social. Most dragons, we see, are social creatures. This is required so they can form social bonds.

 

2) They must be able to empathize with humans. In other words, they must be able to see humans as just as much potential friends as members of their own species. It's similar to what humans feel toward their pets. We see pets as friends despite being different species, and for there to be a bond between you, the feeling must be mutual.

 

Now with the Astrid's and Hiccup's statements of what dragons Hiccup couldn't train...those were dragons that Hiccup couldn't train. (And in fact the statement of him not training Changewings is only half-true; he did train a Changewing named Phantom in on of the Dragons: Riders of Berk comics, but he had quite a bit of trouble and could never manage to train her to be ridden. They more...came to an understanding. In fact, for the first half the comic, everyone was trying to convince him that Phantom was completely untrainable. Anyway...) Hiccup can't train a Whispering Death, Changewing, or Speed Stinger if he's dropped in a pit with them. But that doesn't mean he can't train them under special circumstances or that other people can't train them. And Skrills? The website calls them "nearly untrainable" but "nearly" is not "completely." More like "this is one of the most difficult dragons to train, and we highly discourage you from trying."

 

The only dragons completely written off are the ones you mentioned: the Snow Wraith and the Smothering Smokebreath.

 

Now there is a canon reason given for why the Snow Wraith is untrainable. To quote the official online RTTE map:

 

"[Snow Wraiths] are solitary creatures, with a dangerous and reclusive temperament that prevents them from forming any relationships with humans and dragons alike. Unlike most other species, these dragons are untrainable."

 

They are untrainable because they are solitary and don't form relationships. If they are unable to form relationships, they are unable to form bonds.

 

But the Snow Wraiths in "Snow Way Out" rescued the unconscious one correct? Yes, when I saw this episode, it irked me because this came into direct conflict with this statement. But we learn later from Rise of Berk that these three Snow Wraiths are siblings. It may be that, while they do not form new relationships, they do form relationships with their birth family. Does that mean a Snow Wraith could be trained if it was raised from an egg? Well...maybe, but we know they survive on their own just fine, and if they have problems forming relationships with other dragons, humans are a huge stretch. They might not ever be able to equate humans with their own kind at any point in time, even as babies. The only way I think you could really overcome this is if it never is exposed to other Snow Wraiths its whole young life, and even then, will that bond hold long enough to keep it from wandering off on its own when not hibernating? I don't think so.

 

And that is why my main dragon is not a Snow Wraith. Otherwise, she would have been. But I've always stuck to canon; it just feels like the most respectful thing to do in a franchise. If the Snow Wraith is untrainable, I won't go against that. (Besides, having to go without your dragon for 3 months while its hibernating sounds inconvenient the more I think about it. I think I made the right choice.)

 

So what about Smothering Smokebreaths? Well, we only know they're untrainable because of a throwaway line in the show, so we don't know why they're untrainable (and up until that episode, I assumed they were). These are highly social creatures, so social bonds shouldn't be a problem. But are described as very introverted, which is an odd word to use for a creature that clearly always moves in groups. It may be that this refers to its position with humans and other dragon species. It's clearly fearful of other dragon species, so much so that it builds its strong nest to defend against them. It may be that, like the Snow Wraith, Smothering Smokebreaths just have trouble being able to equate humans (and potentially other dragons) as being worthy of the same friendship it shares with its own kind. Again, you might be able to overcome this with a hatchling if you keep it separated from other Smokebreaths, but in this case, not letting a highly social animal grow up among its own kind can have terrible mental repercussions. (That's why people tell you to have your puppies and kittens properly socialized.) Separating a baby Smokebreath from its own kind for its entire young life can turn into its own form of cruelty. So...untrainable.

 

And actually, I disagree on the Death Song being "shown" to be trained. The Dragon Riders never "trained" Garffiljorg. They just cared for him for a time. They never trained him not to eat what he wanted to eat (hence him continuing to try to eat Chicken) and they never got him to listen to their commands; they only "managed" him by trying to shut him up by singing. And there's no telling whether or not this "bond" would have held; the website claims the Death Song a solitary creature, and SoD says they don't care for their own young. Garf is adopted by an adult when he has the right song, but the adult will probably get rid of Garf as soon as he's old enough to care for himself. A parental bond is not the same thing as a friend bond.

 

Though they've not been stated outright as being untrainable, my personal headcanon is that the Slithersong (including the Death Song subspecies) belongs on the list of untrainable dragons due to its solitary nature, the impossibility in the requirements to keep one (one cannot physically constantly sing - that's why Garf had to go), and the fact that it does not bond very well, if at all, with fellow adults.

 

But who knows? The franchise may go back on its word on any of these dragons. The Skrill and Speed Stinger were both labeled as untrainable due to their high human aggression, but the TV show - the very ones who first stated that - has since revoked that rule for both of them. They may one day revoke the untrainable status on the Smokebreath and Snow Wraith and may show the Death Song actually being trainable.

 

One thing we can always be sure of in this fandom: canon is never consistent. XD

 

(Oh, gosh, I spent twice as much time as I meant to on this! Eek! I have to get back to studying!)

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Soon her ice dragon would come for her, and she would ride on its back to the land of always-winter.

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[She] liked winter best of all, for when the world grew cold, the ice dragon came.

~George R.R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

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The ice dragon was a creature of legend and fear…

 

Ice dragons were rare...

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/dreamworks-school-of-dragons/images/f/fe/Prickleboggle.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150813182151

Giant Prickleboggle: Cool like its icy blast

[W]henever it was seen the children would all point and wonder...

http://wm.schoolofdragons.com/SoD/Css/common/Default/Images/prickleboggle-desc.jpg

Tiny Prickleboggle: Cool under pressure

The ice dragon was a crystalline white, that shade of white that is so hard and cold that it is almost blue.…Its teeth were icicles…jagged spears of unequal length, white against its deep blue maw.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/riseofberk/images/d/de/Groncicle_-_NBG.png/revision/latest?cb=20150601053058

Groncicle: Ice in its veins

It was covered with hoarfrost, so when it moved its skin broke and crackled as the crust on the snow crackles beneath a man’s boots, and flakes of rime fell off.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/riseofberk/images/a/ab/Frozen_Groncicle_-_FB.png/revision/latest?cb=20141126165230

Frozen Groncicle: Carved out of the coldest, oldest glaciers

Its eyes were clear and deep and icy.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/It_EB1yZ9ms/maxresdefault.jpg

Shivertooth: Sharper than the cold of winter

Its wings were vast and bat-like…

Woolly Howl: Creates its own horrible weather

...[T]he beast wheeled in frozen circles through the skies.

Windgnasher: Picks up scents on the wind

When the ice dragon beat its wings, the cold winds blew and the snow swirled and scurried and the world seemed to shrink and shiver.

Snow Wraith: The roar of the chilly winds

Sometimes when a door flew open in the cold of winter, driven by a sudden gust of wind, the householder would run to bolt it and say, “An ice dragon flies nearby.”

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JoXXrhqjRuY/maxresdefault.jpg

Snoggletog Wraith: Guarantees a snowy festive day

And when the ice dragon opened its great mouth and exhaled, it was not fire that came streaming out, the burning sulfurous stink of lesser dragons.

 

The ice dragon breathed cold.

https://www.howtotrainyourdragon.com/images/uploads/dragons/_1095/bewilderbeast_white_hero.jpg

Bewilderbeast: The king of all dragons

Ice formed when it breathed. Warmth fled. Fires guttered and went out, shriven by the chill. Trees froze through to their slow secret souls, and their limbs turned brittle and cracked from their own weight. Animals turned blue and whimpered and died, their eyes bulging and their skin covered over with frost.

 

The ice dragon breathed death into the world; death and quiet and cold.

~George R. R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

 

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/images/6/63/Angriffsklasse-Wappen.png/revision/latest?cb=20141207093811&path-prefix=dehttp://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141207094427/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/de/images/3/3a/Gezeitenklasse.pnghttp://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/images/2/22/Pfeilklasse.png/revision/latest?cb=20141207094635&path-prefix=dehttp://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141207094921/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/de/images/c/c4/Schreckensklasse.png

 

Ice Dragon from the How to Train Your Dragon Book Series: The Doomfang

Doomfang by Moonlight Phantom

 

She was never quite sure whether it was the cold that brought the ice dragon or the ice dragon that brought the cold.

~George R.R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

 

Wingdnasher Fan

 

Prickleboggle Fan

 

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/347/8/4/__woolly_howl_fan_button___by_xbox_ds_gameboy-d89ohi7.pnghttp://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/347/8/7/__shivertooth_fan_button___by_xbox_ds_gameboy-d89ohfp.pnghttp://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/347/d/a/__groncicle_fan_button___by_xbox_ds_gameboy-d89ohin.pnghttp://s25.postimg.org/nj2x8khan/Bewilderbeast_zps15255901.png=

 

And only a winter child—and the ice dragon who loved her—could save her world from utter destruction.

~George R. R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

 

Shamara30's picture
Shamara30
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Please Leave A Message After The Beep. *Ten years later*

Deathsong trainer coming through!!!

Well, I Trained Carmen the came way that Astrid Trained Sleuther except with song and I Trained her long before Sleuther's existence. What I did was when she sang I repeated the song, she calmed some, I sang it again, she calmed more,I began to walk towards her, as I did she sang again and I repeated it and then when I was close enough we did the hand thing.

I personally, don't see why the dragons aren't trainable. Because Hiccup baby train them? No! As you said Alvin trained a "untrainable" dragon. Do what makes it trainable? Honestly the bewilder best is trainable.

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Hello! I am Shamara30! I am new to the forums but I've been watching and I have read a few fanfics too!

I plan to do more with this!&

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Post in your signature if you agree! (Made by MegaboltPheonix)

My OCs

 

Name:Shamara

 

Age:17

 

Backstory: http://forum.schoolofdragons.com/content/how-i-trained-my-dragon-1

 

Appearance: working on it!!!

 

Weapon:A gronkle iron staff that the ends light on fire. It can also split in half the long way to reveal a leather sheet that works like her own version of Hiccup's flight suit.

 

Personality: when Shamara sees something she has to know how it works. This makes her good at quite a few things because she knows about them.

 

Skills:fighting,singing,and flying with Carmen

 

Dragon:Carmen

 

Species:deathsong

 

Unique traits: just as chicken makes Stormfly go faster eel makes Carmen go faster. It brings her speed from 17 to 19 and natural training makes it 20

 

Pet Dragon

 

Name: Coal

 

Species: terrible terror

 

Colors: black with a grey underbelly and highlights

 

Other: Shamara has a thin scar across her left eye. She made matching necklaces in the shape of a music note for her and Carmen. She is the leader of a team of Dragon Riders called The OS Dragon Riders.

 

Name: Vanessa

 

Age:18

 

Backstory: no one can know. When Vanessa was five years old her village was attacked by dragons. Her father sent her and her mother into the woods to hide while he defended the village. On their way to the safe house they had built they were attacked by a monstrous nightmare. Sadly Vanessa's mother died protecting her. Ever since then her father has hated dragons. Even worse he blamed her for what happened. He disowned her. While living on the streets she befriended a singetail and named it compass. This made matters worse between her and her father. Now he not only banished her from his life he also seeks to kill her. Vanessa is on the run when she comes across an ally who is also her father's worst enemy. But they cannot know her secret. Everything she had built up would be lost if they knew the truth. She would be cast out if they knew who her father really was. 

 

Haha! Now you must live with this until I write it!!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

 

Appearance: black hair, Brown eyes

 

Weapon:sword from her father

 

Personality:keeps to herself and in constant mental pain 

 

Skills:sword play, herbal medicine and cooking

 

Dragon:Compass

 

Species:Singetail

 

Unique traits: he always knows which way is north which is why he is called Compass

 

Name:Addi

 

Age:15

 

Backstory:Addi lives on berk a year after httyd 2. Life is good for Addi and her friends Shey, Robin and best friend Gustav but when they are enrolled in Dragon training their lives are turned upside down. 

When a dangerous enemy approaches berk and the dragon riders call on them for help they must learn the true meaning of friendship and see how far they will go for each other.

 

Ha! Again!

 

Appearance: strawberry blond hair cut to shoulders, bright green eyes

 

Weapon: Shield like Hiccup's

 

Dragon:Silver

 

Species:Shockjaw

 

Colors:Grayish turquoise with silver fins.

 

And lastly...

 

Name:Naomi

 

Age:17

 

Backstory:the dragons have left many years ago and many don't believe anymore. But one girl does. When the dragons return led by an angry Toothless Naomi befriends him. Together they begin the search for Hiccup. Will they find him? (Not all the kinks worked out in this story.)

 

Appearance:Brown hair, eyes that appear to be changing color

 

Weapon:none

 

Skills: understanding dragons, sword play

 

Dragon: ha! You may not know yet!!!!!!!!

 

And now, meet my newest OC!

 

Name:Alyssa (Aly)

 

Age:20

 

Backstory: Aly's parents died when she was a baby leaving her  in her uncle's care. One  day, when she was five, her uncle took her in a fishing expedition but the boat was attacked by wild dragons. Her uncle sent  her off in a small rowboat and Aly was never sure what  happened to her uncle. After many  days  floating around(the oars had been lost to the dragons) she fell asleep. When she awoke she found  herself surrounded by dragons and a young woman. She learned that  the woman's name was Valka and she lived with and trained dragons.

Valka nursed Aly back to health and after  that the thought of leaving never entered her mind. She grew up among dragons and even bonded with a yellow  and green triple stryke which she  named Hunter. 

At the time of httyd 2 Aly was on a trip to find  more dragons wounded by Drago Bludvist and take them to the sanctuary.

 

Appearance: she dresses like Valka and had similar hair.

 

Weapon: stick thing like Valka's.

 

Skills: Training dragons and thankfully, cooking.

 

Dragon:Hunter (triple stryke)< Other:Aly speaks dragonese since she grew up with dragons. /p>

 

 

                     Dragons I hope to get

 

Name: Echo

 

appearance: (both done by The talented VexyLu. Thanks!)

 

 

Here is baby Echo by nightfuryatom4! TSYM! 

 

 

And here is my first Dragon, Skyfire! (Also by VexyLu;-)

 

Okay! I plan to do a lot more with this but thank you for reading my OCs!!!! So long dragon riders!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

WhispertheWolf's picture
WhispertheWolf
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Joined: 03/13/2015
Who said "untrainable" just refers to Hiccup?

There's a difference between a species being "untrainable" and Hiccup not being able to train it. The franchise does not call dragons "untrainable" just because Hiccup can't train it. It's been pretty blatant about that, actually. The Whispering Death, for example, was never deemed an untrainable dragon; the franchise even gave us a training tip for it long before it stated Hiccup was unable to train one himself. While there are dragons that Hiccup has trouble with, there are other dragons that the franchise just flat out calls untrainable, and they're pretty much none of the dragons Hiccup was stated to have a particular issue with. The Snow Wraith and Smothering Smokebreath are currently the only dragons in the whole franchise outright labeled "untrainable." (The Death Song actually hasn't been outright stated to be untrainable...though the only attempt to train it in the show was a failure, so I do wonder about that one.)

 

I explained why a real life animal might not be "trainable" in the way it's meant in the franchise up above. Whether or not that applies to these fictional dragons is still up in the air, but I did theorize how that might apply to the Snow Wraith and Smothering Smokebreath and possibly Slithersong/Death Song. I also conceded that DreamWorks might change their mind on this later down the road, as it's not the first time they've done so. (I'd like Snow Wraiths to be trainable, personally. I've always wanted one for my OC, but my wish to keep her true to canon was stronger. One can dream.)

 

The Bewilderbeast is a dragon shown to have a lot of empathy for species not its own, which is required to form a bond between a dragon and its trainer. This empathy is a defining personality trait of your standard Bewilderbeast, unlike solitary dragons like the Death Song and Snow Wraith. Given that trait, I'd be surprised if the Bewilderbeast wasn't trainable. The problem with training it - its size - is very different than the problem presented by the Snow Wraith and Smothering Smokebreath. For the most part, size doesn't really affect bonding...if you can get the gigantic dragon to notice you, that is. XD

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...

Don't you mean, can all dragons be Tamed?

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There are only 2 signs before our savior returns. First, the gospel will be translated in all languages and received to all world tribes to hear the word. The second sign is all of the nations will turn against Israel and plan to destroy the Jews once and for all. As the armies arrive, Jesus will emerge as pure and fight all the armies all against one. There begins the rapture to break down the old world, then form a new one.

Today the bible has been translated to 98% of all languages, and now Obama wishes to plan offences against Israel.

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Shamara30
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Please Leave A Message After The Beep. *Ten years later*

Lol me and my friends like to train hard to train Dragons!

I Trained a deathsong
Radel Trained a Flightmare and a smothering smokebreath
Hilda Trained a skrill
And Lex Trained a pack of speedstingers!

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grumpyforlife2
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Wait, what does that have to

Wait, what does that have to do with anything? :/ I'm confused

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Shamara30
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Please Leave A Message After The Beep. *Ten years later*

Nothin really. I was just laughing about how me and my friends are training the untrainable dragons;-) we've Trained a smokebreath and I'm currently training a snow Wraith;-)

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Icee Glacier
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Joined: 05/16/2014
*Odin is a salty little pringle~☆

Screaming Death trainer a'coming thruu

Personally I believe that most of the dragons said to be "untrainable" are mostly dragons that showed too much aggression towards our main heroes and they never got a chance to try. Whether or not these titles are true is another story. I found what Whisper said intriguing, and also wondered if that might actually affect their trainability in the show. But again, like she said, canon is all over the place sometimes. If anything, it's all pretty iffy. I stand by my choice of dragon, mainly because A. He's freakin' beautiple and I just can't part with him by now and B. I think any of these dragons show slight potential- whether it be logically or unstable-canonically.

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Stop Boulder Class shaming!

BOULDER CLASS! BOULDER CLASS! OI OI OI!

Hai.

Welcome to my signature.

Since I am a person who is very, very lazy I (at this time) don't feel like making my siggy "fancy"

So, here's some stuff 'bout me.

I am a girl.

I like the color Blue/teal.

My favorite dragon class is Boulder Class.

 my main dragon(s) are a Screaming Death named Odin, and a Skrill named Jayfeather.

I love Doctor Who, Merlin, Chuck, Physch, Harry Potter, The Kane Chronicles, and other nerd-y things.

My favorite Httyd dragons whose names start with the letter s are Screaming Deaths, Shivertooths, Skrills, Scauldrons, Smothering Smokebreaths, Snafflefangs, Shovelhelms, Sword Stealers, Snifflehunches (+Sneezelhunches) and Seashockers! (that's alot!)

And I am usually friendly :D

In-game name is: IIicedragonII (No, not lice dragon. Those are capital i's not l's. And you simply pronounce it as "Ice dragon")

Friend code: hmm.. P.M. me if you want it. Can't take any chances o3o

And I'm a proud member of The Phantom Lords! (ROAAAAAAAAR!)

I'm also a proud member of the recently-made forum clan The Sisterhood of Clams!

"We aren't perfect! We're women! We take what we want!"

I'll probably post some bios about my dragons, but I'm too lazy to do it right now XP

 

 

Amazing picture of my main viking OC, Eira Glacier, by Pixel!

Picture of my bestest-Screaming Death-buddy, Odin, by Dragonrider34!

 Picture of Odin eliminating the largest threat known to vikings: BUTTERFLIES!! Awesome picture done by ScarfyWings! (He's not a fan of butterflies, deathly afraid of them actually. I can only shudder in horror as he has now discovered they're flammable..)

Epic picture of Odin done by WutendBonfire!

 

 

Info card on Odin by ze great AllyNadderRider!

 

Picture of Jayfeather by Dragonrider34!

 

 

Oldscratch Johnson by Gigimon!

Amazing picture of Seawings done by Freakzter!

 

Picture of Spottedleaf by Tyrannosaur66!

 

Picture of Mage by FlamingHusky!

Adorable picture of Gadget by KareKare!

Amazing edit of Armakillo done by Siren-Spirit!

 

Permafrost the lone Snow Wraith by Huntress of the Storms!

Great edit of Ignis my Monstrous Nightmare done by Frytha!

 

The Acidic ScuttleSting! Idea by me and this amazing picture by NightmareRebuff!

My ever-so-adorable Pan-Puffle Plumpkin by Sky and Ocean!

Blight the nightfury/razorwhip hybrid adopted from Tyrannosaur66!

Sea Glass, my first ever Aqua Borealis by Kcrocket & 1Flower!

Picture of Bluestar being... Bluestar by AngNadder!

 

Armakillo picture by Wildfire78!

Cute Shivertooth blinkie by Candyblast!

Picture of Graveyard admiring his precious chicken by NadderForever!

 

 

Picture of Doopliss by Dragonrider34!

Clan Stuff/Miscellaneous:

(right now it mostly has things for the Sisterhood of Clams, however if I find some phantoms stuff I shall add it to this section as well)

The Sisterhood of Clams' adorable mascot, Clament! (Done by the clan leader, Sky and Ocean!)

Awesome Elder picture of Me, Zuski, and Gummy Bear (our codenames, respectively.) by Sky and Ocean!

 

All clam members by our clam leader, Zuski/Sky and Ocean!

 

My clam badge by Zuski/Sky and Ocean! (The derpy bird represents me perfectly.)

Check out the dragon fight club! It's a cool sort of 'event' area where we stick dragons head-to-head on eachother and vote/see which would win in a fight!

 

Currently there's a tournament going on! Which side are you on?

Fire..

Or..

Ice..

Personally..

Team ice FTW!

 

 

Lil' short:

Jayfeather: C'mon friend, this thing won't hurt anyone!

Odin: I do not have time to mess around with strange objects.

Jayfeather: Look, just hold still.

-Seawings makes sure to not be in the shot of the camera-

-click-

Jayfeather: Aha! Got it. Ahh fish paste, my wing was in it..

Odin: Hand that over this minute! I... want to see if you got my good side..

Jayfeather: HA!

Seawings: G-guys lets just bring this thing to Ice, o-okay?

Odin: GIVE ME THE PICTURE!!

Jayfeather: YOU'LL HAVE TO FIGHT ME FOR IT!!

Odin: GIVE IT HERE YOU EEL WITH WINGS OR AM I GONNA HAVE TO-

-Jayfeather flew off chuckling-

-Odin roared after him-

-Seawings whimpers and decides to follow-

(Funny picture of Odin and Jayfeather by Wutend Bonfire!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha! Got ya >:D

(awesome gif of Odin by Peymae!)

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You Read the Thingy!

Hey, someone read my long thingy! XD

 

In all truth, I really hope they revoke some of this untrainability stuff. At least for the Snow Wraith. I really want a Snow Wraith! I'm past the point of wanting to make Winterwind one - mostly due to the hibernation thing (I want my dragon and me to be able to explore the world in summer, too, gosh darn it!) - but I still want one! I really want one! (She and Icevein can be buddies! ...Though if she sees only in infrared, would she be able to see a cold Groncicle...?)

 

On the plus side for your Screaming Death, your problem is availability, not trainability. I mean, how does Hiccup know that a dragon not even listed in in the Dragon Manual is only born every hundred years? ;)

 

(Off-topic, anyone wonder why the franchise chose to forget that the book was called the Dragon Manual and instead chose to call it the Book of Dragoins? Book of Dragons is more...snappy, I guess, but it seems like a odd thing to change. I still call it the Dragon Manual generally, because I'm one of the HTTYD fandom oldies.) XD

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Icee Glacier
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*Jayfeather is an "Uber tubular dood, struttin' his stuff. Man."

Of course I read your long thingy! They usually promise to hold very interesting facts and data!

Me too, and chances are they probably will due to the popularity of certain untrainable dragons. You even see that with the Skrill- I believe it was originally said to be untrainable? I also want to say the Timberjack but I don't think that's true, I think they were just unridable. But yeah, with how popular some of the untrainable dragons are, it wouldn't be too unbelievable if they were to go back on previous canon. After all they did that in the Snow Wraith episode you mentioned xP. And that also is an interesting question- how well could a thermal-visioned dragon see a literally cold-blooded dragon. I guess, in warmer areas, it'd be easier for it to make out the Groncicle, but in the snow? That could possibly be part of a Groncicle's camouflage- special for it when sharing the same climates as predators like the Snow Wraith.

Yep- availability. Which is also why I didn't have many gripes intergrating him considering how many people have Night Furies as their main dragons. As for the 100 year thing, it's been shown they over-exaggerate certain facts before (Like saying the Fireworms are hotter than the sun- which couldn't possibly be true or else most of the archipelago would be incinerated.) so when they say "Only hatched every 100 years" It seems more of a way of saying "One is spotted every 100 years"- i.e., they're very rare. Which is believable, because they seem to be a mutation of Whispering Death.

As for Book of dragons/Dragon Manual, my guess is as good as yours. Probably changed it to sound more 'whimsical'. xP

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Untrainability: A History (Because I'm a Gigantic Dork)

Eh...sort of right. The Skrill was originally trainable, then untrainable, then trainable. The Timberjack was always trainable and rideable, but you might be thinking of the Typhoomerang. ...I'll explain.

 

I'm, um...such a huge dork that I've been keeping my own Dragon Manual since 2012 (back when there were only 15 dragons in the franchise! I'd say "those were the good old days," but...no ice dragons. So meh.) This Manual slowly gets updated little by little. As a result, I have a well-remembered history of the trainability of the dragons. Because I had to change my Manual. Every. Freaking. Time!

 

The history of untrainability in the HTTYD franchise:

 

At first, the Book of Dragons short said "any dragon can be trained," but a fake online interview the creators did with Hiccup (which first revealed Hiccup's age as 15) back in...2012?...had Hiccup answering a fan's question as to why he didn't train the Red Death, quoting Hiccup's words from the BoD short. I don't remember his answer word-for-word, but it was along the lines of "Did you see that thing? No one was going to train that." Word's still out on whether he was talking about the whole species or the individual. (I call individual being untrainable now rather than the species because there's actually a quest where you train the Green Death in Rise of Berk, so...) But the consensus fan was that all dragon species were fair game to train, based on canon statements with the Seadragonus Giganticus Maximus (as the Red Death's species was called then) kind of...meh, who knows.

 

Then the TV show came along. (Sometimes I swear the show is the bane of my HTTYD fandom existence.)

 

It's been taken down since the show moved to Netflix, but back when the show was on Cartoon Network, CN had dragon profiles on the Dragons section on their website. And there, the profile for the Skrill said it was untrainable with no explanation, and the profile for the Speed Stinger said it was "too aggressive to train." It also said the Typhoomerang was not rideable due to its fire tornado take-off routine, and a throw-away line in one of CN's games said that the Scauldron was too wild to be ridden. The implication was that the Typhoomerang and Scauldron could be trained, but you won't see their trainers riding them.

 

Because the Skrill and Scauldron were among the original 15 species, back when "any dragon can be trained," and Scauldron artwork on the Book of Dragons Blu-Ray showed riders on Scauldrons, this bit of info on these two dragons was actually a retcon. The Speed Stinger and Typhoomerang were new dragons, however, and therefore not subject to the old rule.

 

The Typhoomerang thing was retconned in the TV show itself, when everyone rides Torch in "Zippleback Down." Torch later became a temporary mount for Hroar in the graphic novel Dragons: Riders of Berk Volume 4 "Stowaway," and Frey, a boy from Chilblain, ends up getting a Typhoomerang as his own dragon in the graphic novel Dragons: Defenders of Berk Volume 2 "Snowmageddon" (yes I have the names and volume numbers memorized...sue me). Apparently, riding Typhoomerangs is now fair game.

 

The Skrill? As you say, that was pure popularity! You know who first dared to say, "Nah, guys, the Skrill's trainable!" since Book of Dragons? ...School of Dragons! Yup, they answered the demands of the players who wanted Skrills and made it a members-only dragon (back when you could have only one dragon per Viking) and when they did, they added their website's Skrill profile (in the "Game Guide" section), which has a "trainable" label under the statistics with YES in capital letters...as if they need to emphasize that to stick it to somebody. XD And this was back when SoD was still pretty solidly canon in terms of dragon info on things like trainability, so their word on this actually meant something back then.

 

At the time, this was still in contradiction to what CN was saying, but later the DoB Volume 2 "Snowmageddon" had a boy from Chilblain named Kettil train his own Skrill (though I'm not convinced the artist knew anything about Skrills when he drew that panel. I think he more just had pictures of a bunch of HTTYD dragon species and drew them randomly and happened to give Kettil a Skrill so it wouldn't be the same species as the other dragon riders in the comic. Still, it is indeed a Skrill, and it's a canon source. There you go.) So the franchise as a whole was leaning more toward SoD's trainable Skrill at this point. And then DreamWorks redid their HTTYD website in preparation for the second film, and the Skrill's profile now claimed it was "nearly untrainable," probably to find middle ground between the two. So this dragon went from "trainable" to "not trainable" to "easily trainable" to "yes, it's trainable, but it's really difficult and you might hidetrying."

 

Finally, the Speed Stinger was retconned only last year by the show. (Arguably it was retconned in SoD, but SoD has you train plenty of unobtainable and untrainable dragons by that point, so it was no longer a useful gauge. They lost the last of their credibility when they added the Screaming Death...no offense.) But anyway, Speedy, our little web-footed, water-running Speed Stinger, was the moment when Speed Stingers were no longer "too aggressive to train." You just needed to become their pack, apparently. And with "too aggressive to train" no longer being found in any available online canon media, it's officially a trainable dragon...albiet very, very, very difficult and requiring specific circumstances.

 

As for the Scauldron...that was never retconned, actually, but the information on it being unrideable was lost when CN started taking Dragons things off their website and has not been repeated by the franchise since, so I guess everyone just fell back on assuming the Book of Dragons pictures should be the authority on whether or not its rideable...and according to that, yes, it is rideable.

 

And the Red Death? Rise of Berk now can have you train the Foreverwing, Green Death, Screaming Death, and Bewilderbeast, and since that's not contradicted anywhere, it counts as canon. (So if you can just find a Screaming Death, big boy Odin is perfectly trainable canon-wise!) And this means the Red Death species is actually trainable, despite that old "interview." Makes you wonder about Hiccup and Toothless' first battle with that particular Red Death. ...Meh, that guy was a cannibalistic tyrant, he doesn't count. XD

 

Smothering Smokebreaths have been trainable in Wild Skies and School of Dragons for a long time before one of the RTTE show characters actually said it was untrainable in a throwaway line (when Hiccup had a plan involving Smokebreaths). In this case, making it untrainable was the retcon, not the other way around...and frankly, I'm just outright baffled by it. I know I explained how it's possible, and as long as it's canon, I'll back that status and come up with possible explanations, but the Smothering Smokebreath is highly social and...well, just plain cute! What is the point of making it untrainable from a story or franchise standpoint, and how does that even make sense with its behavior? There's no reason storywise, it limits dragons your fans can fantasize about, and the sheer lack of empathy for other species that this dragon needs to have for that to make sense for such a social creature makes it seem both less intelligent and kind of...unlikeable. Like, whoa, you guys are kind of elitists, aren't ya, you little devils?! What was the point of this?

 

The Snow Wraith, on the other hand, has contadictions in this area rather than retcons. When released to the press, an article on the new RTTE show reported that the new Snow Wraith was untrainable. So it was untrainable before we even saw it! I'm not kidding; this came out the week I found out about this dragon. We didn't even know what its breath weapon was yet, but we knew it was untrainable. (Trust me, I remember. I was putting money on it being an ice dragon, and I was broken-hearted to find it untrainable. Much as I loved the Woolly Howl, I was set on making the Snow Wraith my new Winterwind from the moment I saw it if it's breath weapon was ice. That was taken from me within days!) This press release was weeks before the first season of RTTE as released. Then upon release, the RTTE online map was also released and reiterated the Snow Wraith's untrainability, this time with a reason. Now that reason gets retconned - which is annoying because the reason for its untrainability made perfect sense back when it had no relationships with anyone or anything, and now you're just confusing the matter by making it care for siblings -  but the trainability itself is never reconned within the show canon. The Snow Wraith was released in School of Dragons and Rise of Berk as a trainable dragon, and in RoB, Eret trains Skrill Chiller, a particularly Skrill-aggressive Snow Wraith. But this stands in contradiction to the show rather than as a retcon because the information about it being untrainable is still on the latest version of their map, and a lot of people (myself included) think show canon trumps game canon. So despite it being trainable in some canon sources, they haven't actually retconned it yet. (If you would, DreamWorks, that'd be great, thanks.)

 

My theory as to why it's untrainable is the same theory I have as to why the Skrill went through an untrainable phase, too: power. The Snow Wraith was originally going to be a "Snow Fury" before the team decided to redesign it to not have another Fury species in the franchise. But it is still, to this day, meant to be a dragon to match the Night Fury and Skrill. (They later did this with the Triple Stryke, too.) I think the team doesn't want these dragons to be trainable because they don't want someone else who is comparable to Hiccup and Toothless, most likely so they can't be out-shown in the merchandise. It's the same reason they decided not to make a "Snow Fury." ...I personally think that's kind of stupid from a story standpoint because, regardless of marketing, making adversity for your characters to overcome in your story is a GOOD thing, but DreamWorks never asked my opinion. And since then, they've gone and let the Triple Stryke be trainable pretty much from Day 1, so now they're just out of excuses. -_-

 

I don't know if the Snow Wraith is popular enough to recieve a "trainable status" retcon by way of fan pressure, though. Back when the Skrill was retconned as a trainable dragon again, it was the second most popular dragon in the franchise, second only to the Night Fury. The Snow Wraith is...well, not as well-loved by the fandom as I personally would like it to be (what with it being my favorite dragon and all). XD I think the Snow Wraith's best bet at becoming trainable in canon is along the same lines as the Speed Stinger and Typhoomerang retcons...have it trained in the show. (My fingers are crossed!)

grumpyforlife2's picture
grumpyforlife2
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May the purple be with you ;)

First off, wow, long post! XD  It's cool to see you put that much thought into it.  I agree with you on everything ((even though i'm a little sad about the Snow Wraith untrainable explamation :'(  Made me feel depressed.  Oh well, Snowdust is too cute to give up anyway! ^_^))  I really do hope that the Snow Wraith does become trainable.  Its so cool ((Literally! XD  Excuse my fairly horrible humor)) & its abilites do match the Night Fury toe to toe, or rather, claw to claw XD  ((Go ahead, sue me XD)).  I wonder what would happen if it came across a Skrill...........ooohhh, that would be interesting! ^_^  Anywho, i'll be sitting on the bench with you, with my fingers crossed!  Snow Wraith for trainablity! ((Wow, that doesn't even make sense XD  I must have had too much sugar at my end of school party))

 

((I also find the Snow Wraith's sense of loyalty to family members interesting.  So, going off your first post, & yes, I did read it, do you think it would be possible to train a Snow Wraith if you raised it from birth, filling for the role as a parent, & it never came in contact with another of its species?  I just wanna see if my oc's way of training Snowdust is even possible X3))

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Snow Wraith Trainability: A Way-Too-Long Analysis

Heh...I am not concised. Still, very glad people are interested in my analysis/word vomit thingies that I tend to post! XD

 

I always kind of assumed Snowdust wasn't really a canon Snow Wraith. You've referenced her seeing colors and expressions, something an animal with infrared vision couldn't do, and she's trained. Also, her personality isn't much like the Snow Wraith is described...and that's part of what makes Snowdust awesome because she's just adorable and loving! (But she has the canon toughness and power of a Snow Wraith in that cute package! Ah, I love it!) XD

 

And personally, I see nothing wrong with being a little loose with canon in fanfiction if it makes you happy. Like Icee said, she loves her Odin too much to worry about little stuff like that. It's not for my OCs, but that's because I'm a detail-oriented person who would be nagged by my own knowledge. It's a personal choice thing, up to the individual. Personally, I read fanfiction that's pretty loose with canon all the time and enjoy a number of them; I just don't tend to write it myself.

 

But if we were to try to find a trainable work-around with the Snow Wraith combining real-world logic and canon, let's see...

 

Yes, raising a Snow Wraith from birth, away from other Snow Wraiths, would be your only chance. But before we get into how that would probably go down, let's me back up and talk about how one could justify the Snow Wraith's strong family ties seen in the show vs. its solitary description and Frostfright's solitary hunting in the Snow Wraith's intro episode.

 

We know a few things about Snow Wraith social behavior: 1) they are solitary, 2) they are said not to form bonds with other dragons (or humans), 3) they hibernate in genetically-related groups (specifically siblings), 4) in these genetically-related groups, they will protect each other. 1 and 2 seem in conflict with 3 and 4, but there is a work-around with this to make these all compatible. (We're about to jump down my headcanon rabbit-hole, so just follow me here.)

 

I theorize for most of the year, Snow Wraiths probably live alone as solitary hunters and prefer to keep to themselves. They will spurn the company of others. And given where they live, there may be a good reason for this. They live in a desolate wasteland in terms of available resources. Their infrared vision shows they clearly hunt warm-blooded animals (birds and mammals), and those seem in pretty short supply on Glacier Island. This encourages selfishness in terms of food acquisition. (And I don't mean the selfish personality trait; selfishness is actually an animal behavior term in biology when an animal focuses on acquisition of resources for itself, regardless of whether or not it negatively affects other members of its species. This the opposite of altruism in animal behavior, which is when an animal behaves to aid another of its species with no foreseeable personal benefit, a trait often considered to be at an evolutionary disadvantage to selfishness.)

 

However, when it comes time to hibernate in summer, they will gather together in the same spots that their parent used to take them to for the annual hibernation. They may not go to the exact same tunnel, instead digging themselves a new one if the glacier has changed in any way, but they probably gather in the same general location. This means siblings, and possibly parents and offspring and even uncles, aunts, nieces, and nephews, end up hibernating in the same cavern. There's a lot of evolutionary benefits to this. If these dragons choose to forgo their general solitary instincts for their hibernation time, they'll be hibernating in a group without fuss. Snow Wraiths are at their most vulnerable when hibernating (hence why Ryker tried to get one then), but being in a group means there is safety in numbers. If there is some sort of threat, there's a greater chance someone will wake up, notice it, and take care of it or wake the others. They may also evolve to have altruistic behaviors to protect one another during this vulnerable time because if they are all protecting one another, they are all protected and each have a higher chance of survival individually. In this case, altruistic behavior would be evolutionarily advantageous.

 

The fact that they come back to their traditional hibernation place may also indicate that these dragons form strong familiar bonds with its parent(s) and siblings that may simply exist even for the other 9 months of the year. These bonds are not strong enough to keep the dragon from going solitary when its grown, but it is enough to continue to feel the need to protect its own family in this annual vulnerable state and also means that if a Snow Wraith met a family member during their waking months, they probably would have a pleasant, albeit brief, greeting (as long as there was no food to fight over). They might even help said family member if they happen to come upon it in some sort of trouble. And the reason I believe it may acknowledge these these social ties even when not in a vulnerable hibernation period is because this is said to be one of the most intelligent of dragons. Intelligence generally evolves in social species because social species need to process social interaction. Snow Wraiths probably evolved from a more social species that didn't have to compete so fiercely for food resources, and that ancestor probably had very strong familial ties with its own kind, making this familial bond an ancestral trait.

 

So...what does that mean for raising an egg?

 

Well, there's something you have to factor in with any animal that has any sort of social behavior whatsoever. ...It probably will have some behavioral issues if completely isolated from its own species its whole life. This doesn't mean there will be anything "wrong" with it, but it does mean it probably won't behave "normally" for its species because it didn't learn "natural" behaviors from its mother and its siblings. The consequences of this could range to just being a bit quirky to being full-on handicapped in some capacity. So raising a Snow Wraith separated from Snow Wraiths puts that baby at a certain amount of risk. It's not a kind gamble to take with an animal's life; I'd recommend having some reason the egg can't be returned to its own kind to make that plot point work without making the future trainer seem irresponsible.

 

But assuming the baby turns out just a bit quirky and not really all that handicapped, could you train it? Actually I think you could...sort of. But could you really bond with it?

 

For real animals that have parental care but then go on to live solitary lives, separating from one's birth family is, unfortunately, an instinctive behavior, not a learned behavior. Once your Snow Wraith grows up to be an adult, it's going to naturally want to be on its own. It will return to its "human mommy" every year for its hibernation or when it's been injured or compromised in some way in order to have help, comfort, and protection, and it will be protective of its trainer if its ever in the trainer's vicinity. It may even let the trainer ride on them if the trainer starts the dragon-riding when the Snow Wraith is young, using very careful positive reinforcement (because sternness and negative reinforcement probably won't go over well with a dragon this temperamental and smart). But it will feel no need to be intensely attached to its trainer for most of the year, instead wanting to be completely on its own. Is that trained? Well, yes, technically, but it doesn't tie the dragon to the trainer the way other dragon species "bond" with their trainers so intensely. It is a dragon whose bonding, while definitely present, is hampered and distant due to its solitary nature. It would probably find the idea of having to be around its trainer all the time unpleasant and smothering, and if its trainer is always around other people and/or dragons, it would be downright unbearable. The love between the dragon and trainer would be real, but the usual dragon-rider bond would not really exist.

 

That's the scenario that makes the most sense for a trainable Snow Wraith given what we know about it right now. Again, I'm hoping they make it trainable and capable of the traditional dragon-rider bond, and for other species in the past, they have, so there's always a chance. In the meantime, I think if Snowdust makes you happy, no one would hold it against you if you're a bit loose with canon on this one, especially if it's just that one thing. Fanfiction doesn't have to rigid; how rigid it needs to be is entirely up to the writer.

 

And technically, it is canon to train a Snow Wraith...if you go with game canon instead of TV show canon. Eret trained Skrill Chiller, so I call that fair game. And that's a perfectly valid stance. Anything canon is free to call canon. Canon =/= consistency (in this franchise, anyway), and so that leaves the fans to pick and choose what canon they want to follow. That's why the fan who says the Skrill is slower than the Night Fury is just as correct as the one who says the Skrill is faster than the Night Fury; both facts come from canon sources despite contradicting each other, so you can pick and choose and still be right. Me? My list is movie canon and Serpent's Heir, then the specials' canon, then books related to the movies, then show canon, then books related to the show, then Titan comics, then games, and that pattern leaves me calling the Snow Wraith and Smothering Smokebreath untrainable. But that's not a hard-fast rule any other fan needs to follow. If you want to put game canon over show canon for this particular detail, you can do that. I say if you want to say Snowdust is canon and trainable, you can find sanctuary under that umbrella.

 

P.S. Oh, gosh, ever since reading Skrill Chiller's description on RoB, I've wanted to see a Skrill vs. Snow Wraith confrontation so bad! IT WOULD BE EPIC!

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May the purple be with you ;)

first of all......

Derpy Snowdust approves this post XD

Second of all, how did you know Snowdust could see colors & expressions?!  How do you know something about my dragon that I don't?!?  Lol just kidding, I bet i've referenced Snowdust seeing expressions somewhere.  But color? :/  Wow, I must need to pay more careful attention to what I write XD
This is fairly interesting.  If you've ever read my short story, Violet Winter, it describes how Pearl & Snowdust met.  Snowdust was abandoned/lost at a fairly young age, & was found starved & half dead on Berk in the dead of winter.  Pearl took her in from then on, raised her, fed her, & even taught her how to fly.  In the story, Pearl is about 15 or 16, & she is three years younger then Hiccup, so that would mean Snow Wraith's weren’t even officially discovered by the riders until a few months later.  So it would be an impossibility on her part to find Snowdust’s parent’s, at least at that time.
 
Also another thing I find interesting, you said that as a Snow Wraith would age, they’d become more solitary.  Snowdust is still an adolescent, or child, only just learned to fly, so it would be cool to incorporate some of those solitary, more aggressive elements into her as a character as she grows & matures alongside Pearl.  Maybe as she ages & grows more distant, Pearl could even start to ride another dragon more then Snowdust ((Gosh, that would be sad though )’: I’m not sure I could bear it emotionally))
 
Even though I don’t agree with all that you’ve written, I think most of it lines up perfectly with Snowdust’s character.  She’s quirky, silly, distracted, & just plain adorable ^^  She still has a savage element that comes out in its time of need, hinting she still has the God given instincts of the savage solitary hunter she is, but for the most part is just a big hearted, overpowered sweetie X3 <3  Thank you for the positive input, I greatly appreciate it!  ((I kind of expected it to be bad, so this was a great surprise! XD))
 
P.S.  Oh my gosh yaaaassss, Snow Wraith/Skrill battle would be awesome!!!!!!  I guess in the end the environment of the battle scene would intimately decide the winner.  If it were to take place in a thunderstorm, hands down Skrill would win.  If it were a place like Icestorm island or Glacier island, then I think Snow Wraith would come out on top.  It all comes down to the little details i guess, if its cold enough for the Snow Wraith to distinguish the Skrill from the background, if the Skrill is charged with lightening, that sort of thing :P  Still would be super awesome & intense though!!! :D  I’d be routing for the Snow Wraith all the way! :D
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More Night Fury Parallels!

Yay, Derpy Snowdust approval! XD

 

Yup, I have read "Violet Winter"! But if I recall correctly, I don't believe the Snow Wraith was discovered in RTTE. According to Fishlegs in that episode, the Snow Wraith was in the Dragon Manual (er...Book of Dragons, whatever) long before then, but there wasn't anything on them. Berkians knew it existed and that it lived on Glacier Island, but that was it. It is possible they didn't even know what it looked like.

 

...Are they meaning to parallel that to the Night Fury here? Because that sounds an awful lot like a Night Fury. Just the name, no information, and just things like, "Speed: Unknown. Size: Unknown. ...Never engage this dragon. Your only chance is to hide and pray it does not find you." That could have worked as a Snow Wraith description before they knew anything about this dragon, couldn't it? Anyway...

 

You said you don't agree with everything I've written, so I'm curious, what's your theory about the stuff you don't agree with? I love dragon theories! *wags tail excitedly*

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Gosh, your right! They did

Gosh, your right! They did know there was a mysterious dragon called the snow wraith, but they knew nothing about it, except what it's bite mark looked like and gothi's dangerous encounter! Wow, I'm getting rusty! Embarrassing...
Lol I agree with your theories, just not all the evolutionary stuff XD. I believe in the account of Genesis, which says God created everything in six days then rested on the seventh, which goes against evolution, which says everything has evolved by random chance and that there is no God :P. I just don't agree with that stuff (though I'd rather not get into a bloody argument about the subject if you don't mind XD life is too short of internet drama). Other then that I agreed with you on everything XD

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If One Must Be Opposed to Something, It is Good to Understand It

Ah, don't worry, I have no intention of making an argument. XD But, uh, I will correct a few things because there are some incorrect facts here. For one thing, I truly believe you should understand something properly in order to properly oppose it, and the other thing is, one of your incorrect facts...kind of denies the existence of my own faith? Don't worry, I'm not upset at all, it was never intentional on your part, but I'm just going to let you know just for future reference with other people.

 

Uh, so one thing is...that is not what evolution is at all.

 

Evolution does not happen by random chance. In fact, when genetics are left up to random chance, there is no evolution because there's no outside pressure for natural selection. Evolution happens when certain genes have better survivability than other genes, and certain traits being favored over others is the opposite of being random. This is true in both microevolution, where genetic percentages change within a species, which has been tested and proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, and macroevolution, which is the creation of new species through these genetic recombinations and, while substantially supported by evidence, is pretty much logistically impossible to make a test for. (Well...we've proven speciation - creation of new genetic species - can exist within a single genus, actually, but we've only seen it between species that are physically very similar and really only different through breeding and genetic testing. Macroevolution is the one that those who take a literal interpretation of Genesis don't believe in, btw.) But no matter what way you splice it, random chance is the very antithesis of evolution because true randomness makes evolution impossible. So just be careful with phrasing that; you wouldn't want to lose credibility in your knowledge.

 

The Theory of Evolution also makes no statement about God whatsoever. It actually ignores the question altogether. There are evolutionists that believe God has worked through evolution and others who think it means we don't need a god; it's really an individual journey. And here's where the "denying faith" part comes in because saying that false statement is saying the existence of the faith of myself and a number of my colleagues (including that of Darwin himself, who was a Christian) impossible. Now I'm a Christian. I'm also a biologist, and the field of biology really doesn't make sense without an evolutionary basis. What appears to be random traits and genes paints a portrait of cause and effect and relationships between living things when given an evolutionary lens. As a result, it is a fact - pure fact, not opinion - that the current biology field has based itself around evolution. (Whether or not that's a good thing is not my place to say.) So how can I still be a Christian and be an evolutionist? People like me take the more traditional stance of not taking the Bible literally and believing it to be subject to human flaw through its authors, rather than going with a literal Biblical interpretation and belief in its infallibility brought on by the Protestant Reformation about 1400 years after the religion's creation. Basically, evolution really has nothing to do with any religion one way or the other, and to say otherwise is not only untrue but denies the existence of the belief systems of real people.

 

The other thing I will warn you about is that, because modern biology hinges on evolution to be explained, not allowing it to be accepted as part of the discussion will shut things down with most educated biologists. I don't mean people will get offended or anything (I mean, they might, it's the Internet, but that's besides the point); I mean people won't be able to really have a basis for discussion. As someone educated in the biological field, I immediately opt out of a discussion of animals, real or fictional, where evolution is not allowed, not because I'm upset or opposed but simply because I've just lost the basis for a lot of my theory and therefore can't really add anything anymore. I might come up with real-world examples, but since evolution is still often the explanation for why those real-world examples are the way they are, I'm still a bit ham-stringed. I'm actually baffled about how you can agree with what I've stated above if you don't accept the evolution part, because my entire Snow Wraith theory hinges on it.I don't have a problem with you disagreeing - not at all! - but I admit I am confused about how anything I said about the Snow Wraith's social behavior could have made sense if you take that part out of it.

 

Now one thing I will say is, no matter what someone's beliefs or the facts, I'm afraid evolution is canon to the HTTYD franchise. Not only was evolution referenced with the more southern-dwelling Speed Stingers shown to have evolved webbed feet and outright described for the creation for the Desert Wraith subspecies, but the official website mentions the Death Song's "distant Jurassic ancestor," and the word "evolved" has been used multiple times when describing why certain dragons have certain traits, even for game species like the Prickleboggle. So whatever science will continue to say about the real world, evolution has been included in this fictional universe, meaning regardless of whether or not it is relevant to, say, the real-world cheetah, it is 100% relevant to the Snow Wraith and other HTTYD species...as relevant as the fact that apparently all these creatures can fly, too (which we all know wouldn't be realistically possible).

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I would try to disagree with

I would try to disagree with you, but I'm too lazy to write anything super long & detailed right now XP  So i'm just gonna leave it at I don't necessarily agree with you, but I don't want to argue/debate on the subject today :P

 

though I do have to say I do know the proper defenition of Evolution ((& evolution)), & that I do understand it quite well.  I just worded it terribly XP ((I was never good at words anyway XP))

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I'm a little confused what

I'm a little confused what there is to "agree or disagree" because all I did was reiterate facts in this last reply. I tried very hard to keep opinions out of that reply entirely for that reason...except for the part where I stated that I personally fall into one of the groups I was describing, in which case, I stated where I fall in all this. But saying those sort of people exist is just stating a fact. But it's whatever.

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opps....

Oh lol i'm sorry, I read your post wrong!  ((Yep, there is a person in the world who cannot understand a simple explanation such as that, & her name is Grumpy XP XD))  I'm so sorry, that was completely my fault XP  Okay, let me do this reply over.

Well, yes, i will agree with you on that.  Evolution can be divided into two kinds of things: Evolution & evolution.  Capitalize Evolution is defined like this: "A random chance combination of non living things coming together to form life, & evolving from then on to become more & more complex."  Regular non capitalize evolution means things change, like the seasons, & other such things.  In a way this is what you described, Macro & micro.  While Micro is like breeding dogs to make a slightly different dog, a God created, God supervized thing, Macro is not, saying animals evolved from other animals, making new ones.  That, in my opinion, is one of the most confusing things about so called "Evolution."  I believe people got it mixed up & claimed that God's way of controlling his creation (Micro evolution) is Evolution, & hence pair it with Macro Evolution.  So, let me get what you're trying to say straight.  I belive you are saying you don't believe in Macro Evolution, but believe Micro evolution is a process created by God, not by random chance, is that correct? X3

((And wow, its cool to know your a christian!  I had wondered that at some point, but didn't really know how to find out X3  Anywho, glad to know another fellow christian! :D))

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No, no, I believe in

No, no, I believe in macroevolution. I'm saying there are people who are religious and don't feel that is in conflict with evolution because they don't take a literal interpretation of the Bible or believe it infallible, and I used myself as an example to drive the point home because...well, I am one. (And that right there is the reason I generally don't share my personal religious beliefs online; you can imagine the backlash one gets from both the athiests and your so-called fellow Christians for that, and trying to explain how it works even to those who aren't being antagonizing often ends up with a long historical account of how the Bible is created, and that's just exhausting. Also, claiming any belief, athiest or Christian or whatever, seems to be a handicap when you're debating, I've noticed...and I like debating! So yeah, I don't advertise much. I don't actively try to hide my beliefs, though; I just don't bring it up unless I feel it's relevant.)

 

But anyway, it was in response to what you said before about evolution - yes, the Theory of Evolution, which describes macroevolution - saying there is no god to create things. That's simply not true; it states nothing of the short. Whether you believe in evolution or not, this scientific theory does not deny the existence of any god...nor does it confirm one. The scientist does not have to deny God because they believe in evolution; instead, it's the Bible that's the one saying evolution can't exist if the Bible taken as literal. So the Christian's dilemma is to decide whether or not being literal with the Bible makes sense. I'm not trying to advocate my Biblical view or argue you against your Biblical by saying this (that would be advocating an opinion, and admit it, that's the topic both of us are tiptoing around right now); all I'm saying is that this sect of people exist, and they exist because nothing about the theory of evolution disproves (or proves) a divine being. Religion is not part of evolutionary theory one way or the other. (Evolutionists who are Christians and Muslims think God works through evolution, actually...all evolution.) Saying otherwise is not only false but kind of denies the fact that these people's beliefs exist. And I'm warning you about being careful about that because, no matter what people believe, people don't like to have their beliefs outright dismissed, you know? Just kind of a way of letting you know that's a thing so you don't go around saying something that's not correct.

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*Seawings is forever alone, eating nutella & watchin Netflix

Ooooo the history of the dragon trainability was interesting! I had thought I'd read something about Timberjacks being unridable because their wings would chop their trainer's legs off while flying, though that could've been a fan comment I'm not sure. It's interesting to see all the canon conflictions all in one place regarding these dragons, really showing how mixed signals get across this franchise xP

As for them making said dragons untrainable because they didn't want someone upying Hiccup & Toothless, they even contradicted THAT by creating Razorwhips and having Heather ride one. We even see it out-fly Toothless in that one episode. (Though I'm not too impressed by that as the show has shown that ALOT of dragons can fly at the same speed/faster than Toothless.) It's just a bit ridiculous :/

I do hope these dragons gain trainability soon, though. It is saddening to have these somewhat nonsensical trainability labels on them, like what you said with Smokebreaths. I'd have to say, if a Razorwhip, which is described as a "highly skittish and very untrusting loner" could be trained, then pretty much any of these guys could :P

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Trackin'

I adore your word-vomit so much xD I always learn so many new things ahhh

__________________

 

 

     My name is Brynakha the Baleful, and I got quite a bit of dragons - 40 in total - on my home island, Tryggr. Look all the way down to see it!

     To tell a bit about myself, I quite like to experiment and create new things from my dragons' leftover scales or spikes that fall out, including my bowaxe made from the old scales of my Razorwhips, Bruni and Snarlinga, and gronkle iron that my gronkle, Fiskr, provided me with. The axe blades have two dagger-like weapons that are in the shape of the wolfsangel rune and are embedded inside the each axe blade, they can come out of the axe to form their own weapons. 

     The arrows for my bow are hollow, and they're the thinner spines that my Whispering Death, Orindi, and my Screaming Death, Jarmr, drop. Sometimes I use their teeth as well. After I hollow out their spines, I put soft bird feathers, color coded, on the ends and depending on the type of arrow, I attach either flint, jasper, blue chert or just gronkle iron. The arrows with the jasper on the end are filled with Monsterous Nightmare gel, provided by Bal. The arrows with flint on the end are filled with Zippleback gas, provided by Tven 'n' Ri. The arrows with chert on the end are filled with Flightmare mist, provided by Faela. The final type of arrow is tipped with Gronkle Iron and is not hollowed out, forming a normal arrow.

 

     What? You want to know more? Well, I can't tell you all my secrets, but on my island rescue for dragons and animals alike, I live and handle it alone.

My dragons that are pretty much just residents on the island are more like a wild pack and they're handled by my rescued Singetail, Svidar, who is extremely loyal to me.

     My main dragon? I have a peculiar dragon, that's for sure. Oh, his species? He's a hybrid between a Sand Wraith and a Woolly Howl. He doesn't really have a classification just yet, but I call him a Howling Wraith. His name is Draugr, or Ghost.

    Oops! Almost forgot, I do have a pet Terrible Terror named Odaell, or Troublemaker. I often just call him Sinni.

 

Please do NOT steal or copy any of my characters, art, edits, or ideas. All images are done by me.

 

         Riding Dragon

Draugr: Titan, Male, Howling Wraith

         Hunting Dragon

Odaell(Sinni): Titan, Male, Terrible Terror

         Personal Dragons

Aldrienn(Snaer): Adult, Male, Night Fury

Vargulf: Adult, Male, Silver Phantom

Lanyi: Adult, Female, Sand Wraith

Vedr: Adult, Male, Woolly Howl

Meizi: Adult, Male, Windwalker

Lit Rjuka: Adult, Male, Smothering Smokesbreath

Leita: Titan, Female, Stormcutter

Aeva: Titan, Female, Snow Wraith

Flotti: Adult, Male, Timberjack

Faela: Adult, Female, Flightmare

         Wild/Rescue Dragons

Svidar: Adult, Male, Singetail (Leader)

Seydir: Adult, Female, Flame Whipper

Orindi: Titan, Male, Whispering Death

Jarmr: Titan, Male, Screaming Death

Skellr: Titan, Male, Skrill

Skyrr: Adult, Female, Silver Phantom

Skipta: Adult, Female, Changewing

Bal: Titan, Male, Monsterous Nightmare

Tven 'n' Ri: Titan, Female, Hideous Zippleback

Midla: Adult, Female, Prickleboggle

Fiskr: Adult, Male, Gronkle

Banikalla: Adult, Female, Deathsong

Fleygja: Titan, Female, Deadly Nadder

Hvata: Adult, Female, Scuttleclaw

Bruni: Titan, Male, Razorwhip

Snarlinga: Adult, Female, Razorwhip

Vagr: Adult, Male, Scauldron

Veifa: Adult, Female, Scauldron

Orendi: Adult, Male, Moldruffle

Feitr: Adult, Male, Hotburple

Hraun: Adult, Female, Eruptodon

Vigr: Adult, Male, Armourwing

Bein: Adult, Male, Boneknapper

Astir: Adult, Female, Hobblegrunt

Ausa: Adult, Female, Tide Glider

Grellir: Adult, Male, Thunderdrum

Skrida: Adult, Female, Shockjaw

Svienn: Adult, Male, Grapple Grounder

Vollska: Adult, Female, Grapple Grounder

Skjotr: Adult, Male, Speed Stinger

Svell: Adult, Male, Groncicle

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Speaking of which...

Which reminds me, I've been working on a word vomit for you (only in pieces because time and PMs don't get buried like threads). XD I just need to address one more thing, and I'll have that sent off to you!

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Oh goody

I'm super excited(despite the prospect of some of my baby being impossible - rip), I am a huge sucker for making my characters as realistic as possible, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts and inevitably learn a thing or two ahah.

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What!!

I know this isn't How to Train Your Dragon realated but did you just say seawing! As in Wings of Fire seawing! Like Tsunami seawing?!?!

__________________

Viking Name- Piggyxl

Dragons-

Meatlug Gronckle (wearing Meatlug skin)

 

Toothless Nightfury

Frosty  Groncicle

Snort and Snot Hideous Zippleback (wearing Barf and Belch skin)

Rocky Gronckle

 

Clan- In need of one

Rules-

If you visit my farm I will visit yours. (If notified)

If you send me a friend request I will except it

If you give me codes or gifts I will give you something (If notified)

If you give me a dragon code or membership I will be eternally grateful

 

  • "Everything we know about you guys is wrong."- Hiccup
  • "They're not what we think they are. We don't have to kill them."- Hiccup
  • "We can do this. You and me. As one."- Hiccup
  • "I see now that the circumstances of one's birth is irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."- Mewtwo
  • "So, this is my power... but what is my purpose?"- Mewtwo 
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What!!

I know this isn't How to Train Your Dragon realated but did you just say seawing! As in Wings of Fire seawing! Like Tsunami seawing?!?!

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*Spottedleaf secretly crushes over Armakillo behind his back

Haha, while I am a huge Wings Of Fire fan, in THAT instance I was talking about my Scauldron named Seawings. I had named him before I'd read the series, so now it does kinda bug me he's named after a species of dragon from another universe xP Sorry about the confusion though!

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Cool!

That's a cool story about your dragon! So you named it Seawing without knowing about Wings of Fire? That's so cool!!!!