Clearing Up The Confusion of Threadtail Vs. Hobblegrunt

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GreenFire
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So I know this discussion has come up a lot in the past on here ever since Rise of Berk released their Threadtail.

But I talked with one of the School of Dragons admins on the SoD Discord and got this answer:

 

"We got directly from Dreamworks. I understand the confusion with where the Hobblegrunt/Threadtail is in current knowledge, but we won't/can't change our Hobblegrunt because Dreamworks named it for us.

(That's also why we have two separate Hobblegrunts in the game, to also cover the other look of the Hobblegrunt.)"

-Kaneka

 

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OwlsBane
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Two?

What do you mean by That's also why we have two separate Hobblegrunts in the game, to aslo cover the other look of the Hobblegrunt. Have I missed an important Hobblegrunt news update?

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~~

To quote from them:

"IIRC we have two different Hobblegrunts in our game."

But from what I've seen, there isn't a second one. Maybe a possible release soon?

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Clarification

Hi folks,

 

I wanted to clarify what I said on the Discord channel. (Join the channel! It's very fun!)

 

We are not working on any Hobblegrunt update currently; there are no changes coming anytime in the near future. There is only one Hobblegrunt. I was wrong!

 

So, why did I remember two different Hobblegrunts? I asked some other devs what I was thinking of.

 

Back in 2014, we created two different models for the Hobblegrunt; we released one, then revised and released another model shortly after. (I -believe- it was a limited time sale, but we've seen what confusion my memory has already caused.) We had two different Hobblegrunts live at one point (though never at the same time, since we updated all Hobblegrunts with the new model), and we eventually settled on the one.

 

I blame my terrible memory.

 

Apologies for the confusion!

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:D

Nice to meet you! :D and thanks for the update!

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There's only one Hobblegrunt

And it's the one that was blatantly shown to be the Hobblegrunt in the second movie.

 

There was simply an honest mistake. It happens. People mess up. It's human. It's natural.

 

It doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

The Threadtail is what is currently taking the real hobblegrunt's place, and maybe someday this simple mitstake will be vindicated.

(I think that's the right word lol)

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There's only one Hobblegrunt

And it's the one that was blatantly shown to be the Hobblegrunt in the second movie.

 

There was simply an honest mistake. It happens. People mess up. It's human. It's natural.

 

It doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

The Threadtail is what is currently taking the real hobblegrunt's place, and maybe someday this simple mitstake will be vindicated.

(I think that's the right word lol)

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In my mind, the current SOD

In my mind, the current SOD Hobblegrunt is a Hobblegrunt. Albeit, lets say, "a different version" than the movie, that sounds like it was sanctioned by Dreamworks. When I started playing SOD, the Hobblegrunt was already available (limited though), so I guess you could say it just seems "natural", in a sense.

 

Then along comes Rise of Berk who name dragons all kinds of different things, and uses the alternate/SOD version of the Hobblegrunt and calls it something else entirely - the Threadtail. Was that sanctioned by Dreamworks? I wonder.

 

To me it seems like ROB "stole" the Alt Hobblegrunt and made this confusing mess, and now people call that Alt Hobblegrunt a Threadtail, when its really a Hobblegrunt. Just a "special" one :) Actually, personally I find that a little irksome, but whatever.

 

Kind of like ROB took SOD's original dragon the Moldruffle, and named it the Common Rockstomper. Why do that?

 

Anyway, just a point of view.

 

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There was frustration about the Hobblegrunt before RoB released the Threadtail. the Threadtail's release just spiked it a bit. They modeled the Hobblegrunt after a background dragon by mistake. They just looked completely different. They're different dragons. The Threadtail only gave that dragon a name.

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Hi! :)

That is confusing! :/

I don't agree that SOD should call the Unknown Background dragon model a Hobblegrunt if both the film and app game are saying it's a Threadtail.

If they want to cover this up they should

a) get ROB to change Hobblegrunt description to subspecies of Threadtail or other way around Threadtail is subspecies of Hobblegrunt.

b) Just change the name Hobblegrunt to Threadtail release Gruff's model call it a Hobblegrunt, tell the SOD community it was a goof <---(this shouldn't be too hard to do).

 

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Clothing: Jade green Shirt with laces
 
Armor: Brown vest, with brown shoulder pads (all engraved with viking symbols), and belt with pouches
 
Accessories: Fenir Wolf Bracelet

Weapons: Trident and Fish net

 
Family: Fishlegs and Heather (parents)
 
Location: Berk
 
Status: Berk Guard
 

Main Dragon: Sand Wraith

Icarus edit by me

Favorite dragon types: Triple Stryke, Slithersong, Seashocker, Hackatoo, and Wingnasher
 
Age: 16
 
 

Artwork of my dragons:

 

credit to FloofQueen

 

Credit to Spy Girl

Credit to Sky and Ocean 

 

Tigger from Ty the Dragon trainer

(picture made by hrepetti)
Twilight adult
 

Aneira

 
Aquarius
 

 

Most of the drawings above are not made by me and I do not take credit for any of them that I personally did not make. Have a wonderful day!!! :)

 
 

Name: Leia Tonks
 

Age: Same as Cederic (Goblet of Fire)

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/f6/bb/f9/f6bbf9cdede7a6f590e8bcdab95b824f.jpg
 
 
Patronus: Tigress
Wand: Redwood, Dragon Heartstring 12½ inches
Quiddich Position: Chaser
Pet: Niffler
Occupation (I would never be bored with this job): http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Curse_Breaker
 

 

 
Nationality: Republic City
Age: Same as Opal
Special ability: Soundbending and Astral Projection
Profession: Pro-bender, Airbending instructor
Bending type: Air (from Harmonic Convergence)
Location: Air Temple Island, Republic City
Weapon: Electrified Gloves
Pet: Thunderbird
https://38.media.tumblr.com/b6a8e05989ec8ddcdd26f01d7a4571be/tumblr_n6k3nsltXd1s0rxzvo2_500.gifhttp://31.media.tumblr.com/728b2b60f375cb27b8e1cb29edfdac2a/tumblr_n779a672XX1t5kw52o1_500.gif
https://38.media.tumblr.com/9d3ae2ccc8360727d387a420aa38e673/tumblr_n9702fqOHn1tf2iw3o1_500.gifhttp://37.media.tumblr.com/c5415b5f685918355d30187b1672b665/tumblr_n7k76m4Olr1qd5q81o1_500.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/3c9c679b8b7f55c679d66912ac167a67/tumblr_n77sdyjOzZ1rjdslyo1_400.gifhttp://37.media.tumblr.com/9a7d73867ecf7a5da0dca899a73c1395/tumblr_n77sdyjOzZ1rjdslyo2_400.gif
http://37.media.tumblr.com/32fd8e9301c4ec9e2ca66aaa670cd723/tumblr_n77sdyjOzZ1rjdslyo3_400.gifhttp://37.media.tumblr.com/dfcaac41b94db06e2c3ec17f709936c5/tumblr_n77sdyjOzZ1rjdslyo4_400.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/0eb1e1220e6f1a9c52916bf2f81ef6cf/tumblr_n7biwlrjsr1qcsioyo2_500.gif
 
https://annelfwind.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/fb125-how-to-train-your-dragon-2-toothless-cute-art-wallpaper.jpg
 
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Just to mention, the dragon

Just to mention, the dragon was not named in the second movie. There has been no mention of a name straight from Dreamworks. Then Dreamworks approved the current SOD hobblegrunt model and name applied to it. Much later, this dragon appeared in ROB, and they named it Threadtail. We do not have any information if Dreamworks approved this (but probably did?). Incidentally ROB also took Sod's original species the Mudraker and renamed it the Rockstomper.

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I think the actual blatant mention of what a Hobblegrunt is in the movie is more of a solid fact than one guy working at dreamworks giving an "ok."

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Hi! :)

I agree. They put it in the script they can't go back and change it now. It's technically canon. 

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Sorry, I mean the SOD model

Sorry, I mean the SOD model Hobblegrunt. Of course the Hobblegrunt in the movie is indeed canon. 

I mean, for the SOD dragon that Dreamworks said to call Hobblegrunt, not the originally named movie hobblegrunt. That ROB took and re-named the Threadtail much later after the release of this SOD Dragon. As fans, we have no information/proof why ROB named this dragon differently, or if it's sanctioned by Dreamworks. (Don't know how all that copyright stuff works for this) And ROB has a history of naming dragons all sorts of things that might not match up with other franchise media.

So, at least it seems to me, that both models of Hobblegrunt are, well, Hobblegrunt. Not a Threadtail. I do agree the movie hobblegrunt is the ultimate original canon version. I totally see why people are upset because the SOD hobblegrunt is different from the movie one. But, whatever the behind the scenes reason, both are officially Hobblegrunts, and we just have to deal :/

Sorry, I hope I explained better?

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Yep. What you said makes sense. I see what you're saying now.

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Stole?

RoB stole nothing. They were looking for new background dragons from HTTYD2 to name and put into their game, and just like all the things at SoD, all things with RoB are approved by DreamWorks. And DreamWorks approved this unnamed dragon, probably without being aware that someone accidentally approved it for SoD under the name of another one of their dragons.

 

Someone messed up when they were told to give SoD a Hobblegrunt. Plain and simple. As said elsewhere on this thread, it happens. But the SoD Hobblegrunt is not actually a Hobblegrunt except in the fact that it was "approved," and the screw-up should not be held against the poor Threadtail, the dragon that's actually in line with the films.

__________________

Soon her ice dragon would come for her, and she would ride on its back to the land of always-winter.

~George R. R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

 

Come Fly with Me by WhispertheWolfie

 

 

Whisper the Wolfhttp://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab117/jan2xonline/blueflyer_zpsf65699ff.gif

& Winterwind  

Winterwind Flying (Gif) by WhispertheWolfie

Whisper the Wolf by Pixel                                                                   Winterwind by Nessie

 

Links

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Winterwind Artwork

Winterwind Banners

Whisper and Winterwind: A Poem by Wolflight

 

https://becomingthesnowqueen.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/snow-queen-banner-text1.png

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The Real Winterwind: Jetta

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/56584758/3/stock-photo-56584758-young-woman-with-her-horse-winter-portrait-toned.jpg

Made by Owlsbane

 

The bond between Man and Beast...

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/polls/459000/459048_1275729097789_full.jpgDisplaying Touch Scene.jpg

...is not just fiction.

 

 

Character Links

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Trainer Sprites by Blackwolfen

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The Wolf and the Howl Characters:

Whisper Norling

Winterwind

Icevein

Sparrow

Ylva Norling

Pickle

Yarrow

Norbert Haugen

Frostclaws

Thistle

Carsten

Avalanche

Dasher

Coldnip

The King

Other Characters

More Characters

 

Son of the Sea Characters

 

In-Game Dragons:

Strike Class

Boulder Class

Sharp Class

Tracker Class

Tidal Class

Stoker Class

Mystery Class Part 1

Mystyer Class Part 2

 

Adoptables

 

 

Links to My Screenshot Comics

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The Wolf and the Howl: The Song of Death

The Wolf and the Howl: The Dragon at Dreadfall

The Wolf and the Howl: Dragon Sledding

The Wolf and the Howl: A Winter's Ride

The Wolf and the Howl: Matchmaker

The Wolf and the Howl: The Mysterious Chicken Caper

The Wolf and the Howl: Terror Loose on Dreadfall

 

Extra: Dasher's Snoggletog Countdown

 

 

[She] liked winter best of all, for when the world grew cold, the ice dragon came.

~George R.R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc222/2-Cute-2-B-Real/Dragons/tealdragon.gif

The ice dragon was a creature of legend and fear…

 

Ice dragons were rare...

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/dreamworks-school-of-dragons/images/f/fe/Prickleboggle.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150813182151

Giant Prickleboggle: Cool like its icy blast

[W]henever it was seen the children would all point and wonder...

http://wm.schoolofdragons.com/SoD/Css/common/Default/Images/prickleboggle-desc.jpg

Tiny Prickleboggle: Cool under pressure

The ice dragon was a crystalline white, that shade of white that is so hard and cold that it is almost blue.…Its teeth were icicles…jagged spears of unequal length, white against its deep blue maw.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/riseofberk/images/d/de/Groncicle_-_NBG.png/revision/latest?cb=20150601053058

Groncicle: Ice in its veins

It was covered with hoarfrost, so when it moved its skin broke and crackled as the crust on the snow crackles beneath a man’s boots, and flakes of rime fell off.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/riseofberk/images/a/ab/Frozen_Groncicle_-_FB.png/revision/latest?cb=20141126165230

Frozen Groncicle: Carved out of the coldest, oldest glaciers

Its eyes were clear and deep and icy.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/It_EB1yZ9ms/maxresdefault.jpg

Shivertooth: Sharper than the cold of winter

Its wings were vast and bat-like…

Woolly Howl: Creates its own horrible weather

...[T]he beast wheeled in frozen circles through the skies.

Windgnasher: Picks up scents on the wind

When the ice dragon beat its wings, the cold winds blew and the snow swirled and scurried and the world seemed to shrink and shiver.

Snow Wraith: The roar of the chilly winds

Sometimes when a door flew open in the cold of winter, driven by a sudden gust of wind, the householder would run to bolt it and say, “An ice dragon flies nearby.”

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JoXXrhqjRuY/maxresdefault.jpg

Snoggletog Wraith: Guarantees a snowy festive day

And when the ice dragon opened its great mouth and exhaled, it was not fire that came streaming out, the burning sulfurous stink of lesser dragons.

 

The ice dragon breathed cold.

https://www.howtotrainyourdragon.com/images/uploads/dragons/_1095/bewilderbeast_white_hero.jpg

Bewilderbeast: The king of all dragons

Ice formed when it breathed. Warmth fled. Fires guttered and went out, shriven by the chill. Trees froze through to their slow secret souls, and their limbs turned brittle and cracked from their own weight. Animals turned blue and whimpered and died, their eyes bulging and their skin covered over with frost.

 

The ice dragon breathed death into the world; death and quiet and cold.

~George R. R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

 

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/images/6/63/Angriffsklasse-Wappen.png/revision/latest?cb=20141207093811&path-prefix=dehttp://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141207094427/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/de/images/3/3a/Gezeitenklasse.pnghttp://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/images/2/22/Pfeilklasse.png/revision/latest?cb=20141207094635&path-prefix=dehttp://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141207094921/drachenzahmen-leicht-gemacht/de/images/c/c4/Schreckensklasse.png

 

Ice Dragon from the How to Train Your Dragon Book Series: The Doomfang

Doomfang by Moonlight Phantom

 

She was never quite sure whether it was the cold that brought the ice dragon or the ice dragon that brought the cold.

~George R.R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

 

Wingdnasher Fan

 

Prickleboggle Fan

 

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/347/8/4/__woolly_howl_fan_button___by_xbox_ds_gameboy-d89ohi7.pnghttp://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/347/8/7/__shivertooth_fan_button___by_xbox_ds_gameboy-d89ohfp.pnghttp://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/347/d/a/__groncicle_fan_button___by_xbox_ds_gameboy-d89ohin.pnghttp://s25.postimg.org/nj2x8khan/Bewilderbeast_zps15255901.png=

 

And only a winter child—and the ice dragon who loved her—could save her world from utter destruction.

~George R. R. Martin, The Ice Dragon

 

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Hence "stole" in quotes, and

Hence "stole" in quotes, and mentions elsewhere its just from my POV.

Certainly ROB didn't literally steal this dragon model, else there's be all kinds of copyright mess to fight! But I'd really like to know what the approval process is between Dreamworks and the HTTYD off-shoots, and what the parameters are.

 

But ultimately, in ROB:

"This dragon can secrete a poison through its skin when it senses danger. The only problem is the Threadtail is allergic to it too! It spends most of the day rolling around in Dragonberry bushes to relieve the itching".

Why? Why do this to the poor dragon? Do you know how many dogs I see that chew themselves to bits and are miserable for most of their lives from allergies?? I'm sure you can appreciate, Whisper, the poor Threadtail would probably be on the extinction train :(

 

Oh wait, their just pixels ... just pixels ... just pixels?

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That's actually what makes Threadtail biology interesting to me

Wild animals that can self-medicate and are used to having ailments their whole lives will not see themselves as miserable but will actually have a normal experience. There are real animals in the world that do eat food that is actually toxic to them which they then have to medicate, and there are animals that produce toxins that they themselves are vulnerable to that they then have to medicate or endure a few flu-type systems. No, I wouldn't consider this animal to be on the extinction train any more than any other specialized species or in danger of harming its own skin with itching. I'd just say it'd be a terrible animal to take out of its environment because they clearly have a very specific system involved in survial and defense, and woe be onto the Threadtail who does not have easy access to Dragonberries.

 

No, that makes it cool and reflective of an amazing and often overlooked ability sometimes seen in wild animals. What's unfortunate is that the fandom has used it as a reason to treat the dragon like a joke or like it's somehow not a legitimate dragon. Sometimes people even say it shouldn't be in the Strike Class dragon...because deadly poison makes it...not one...if it has to overcome natural barriers to have it...? (I don't get this logic.)

 

But either way, the Threadtail is still more legitimate than the SoD Hobblegrunt in terms of movie canon because both were equally approved by DreamWorks, and the Threadtail is the one not predicated on an oopsy-daisy mistake and does not conflict with other information in the franchise.

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"Wild animals that can

"Wild animals that can self-medicate and are used to having ailments their whole lives will not see themselves as miserable but will actually have a normal experience."

I disagree with this statement. We cannot know how animals see themselves. To my knowledge, some animals are thought to not even understand the concept of "self". We don't even know how or if they "think" (like us) or how they experience the world. We do have some understanding of the nervous system and pain. Generally speaking, many mammals' nervous systems are similar to our own, at least for dogs (which, yes, I know aren't wild animals), so we can make some comparision about what is painful and uncomfortable.

 

"There are real animals in the world that do eat food that is actually toxic to them which they then have to medicate, and there are animals that produce toxins that they themselves are vulnerable to that they then have to medicate or endure a few flu-type systems."

Examples? This isn't a challenge or anything, just curious. I might have known an answer at one point :(

 

I guess we'd need to know how effective those Dragonberries are. Do the berries  appear all year round? An evergreen plant?

And the blurb indicates the Threadtails spend most of their days rolling around in the berries. It seems to me that these dragons are effectively isolated to a few islands that contain Dragonberry (unless this plant is ubiquitous throughout the Archipelago?), that their allergy and skin issues to their own secretions are indeed very bothersome, and to the point that it might even interfere with other basic activites like eating and breeding.

 

Going back to my dog analogy - in dogs allergies usually manifest as chronic skin issues, rather than the respiratory stuff many humans with allergies exhibit (but can manifest as skin issues, too, we are just more familiar with the runny eyes and sneezing and such). There are dogs that are pretty much allergic to the world, so to speak. They react to many types of vegetation, dust mites, a variety of foods, I've even seen dogs allergic to cats! (This is verified through testing). They spend most of their time scratching and chewing themselves. They scratch because their skin is constantly itchy. It even drives the owners bonkers because their dogs are keeping them up at night from scratching constantly. Allergy dogs usually have chronic ear infections that get so bad the ear get swollen, red, even has pus coming out. They can get ear hematomas from shaking their heads too much. Any bit of damage to the skin from scratching almost always leads to bacterial skin infections which makes things even worse. Sometimes they loose hair and get "elephant" looking skin. Pustules. Yeast infections. Definitely seen dogs loose their appetite from the discomfort of their skin. I've seen that even if the dog is itchy from something as simple as fleas.Sometimes its so bad and the dog's quality of life is severely affected that they will consider humane euthanasia. If we can get the skin issues under control (and unfortunately this isn't always the case even with a ton of medicines) there is a change in their attitude and behavior. Perhaps we are adding human qualities in this regard, but pet owners will know when their pets just seem more comfortable or "happier".

 

Anyway, granted Threadtails are a hypothetical furless, not really scientifically accurate creature, so who knows what their biology is, but if they bear any semblence to dogs and other animals, I think their species' survival is very fragile.  Or at least there would be a strong selection going on for less allergic individuals.

 

Anyway, just my point of view! Man, I hope I explained my thoughts adequately :( 

 

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Comparing Apples and Oranges

"Wild animals that can self-medicate and are used to having ailments their whole lives will not see themselves as miserable but will actually have a normal experience."

This has absolutely nothing to do with self-recognition and everything to do with the fact that if you live a state where you, say, constantly consume toxic food and are constantly dealing with the consequences of that, that is the "normal" state you recognize because you do not know another experience. What is "normal" - or perceived as normal - for every species is relative. Please don't take this out of context because that is a whole other discussion. You are making the same mistake throughout your entire reply here of doing the exact same thing I warned against in this statement and which you incorrectly accused me of in this statement: assuming the normal state of one species is the normal state for another species. I'll explain further down.

 

As for examples of animals that "harm" themselves with their own diet or toxin...it is very rare, and it's killing me that I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. I know I heard of one a few years ago that ate insect that were actually toxic to it as a mainstay in its diet and then had to deal with the poisons it inevitably acquired by consuming another substance, and they are constantly "sick" by our human standards from their own diet, yet that is the normal state for them. I can't think of that animal now, but I know macaws do this, too, but not to the same extent. They consume clay to neutralize tropical fruit toxins, though theirs is more preventative. Still, it is thought that they still feel a slight negative affect from the toxins in their food. We can't be sure, but it seems likely. But while we would perceive this potential sick feeling as suffering, for the macaws, it's a fairly normal condition of health.

 

An animal that may find a toxin it has to deal with normally being just abnormal enough to be irritating is the clownfish. Some species of clownfish have their own mucus coating to make an immunity against the sea anemone they live in, but not all species do. Some have to actually rub themselves on the anemone to acquire this mucus and are initially stung by the anemone. They must continually do this to maintain their immunity, and it's thought that these clownfish do suffer from infrequent stings from their own home, which probably grow more infrequent with time. Clownfish have enough innate immunity to the stings that it is more of a mild irritation than a paralyzing, killing sting like it may be to other species, but it's still an irritant that is considered a perfectly normal part of its life to acquire and deal with.

 

And if I think of that insectivore-eating animal that I'm wracking my brain for, I'll get back to you. (This will drive me crazy all day!)

 

Notice what I'm doing, though, is thinking up animals that deal with natural toxins in their day-to-day lives in their natural habitats through behavioral adaptation.

 

When most people think of animals dealing with toxins regularly, they think of animals that have physiological adaptations to toxins...that is, their body deals with it in a way that makes them innately immune, like the mucus produced by the innately immune clownfish or the ability of the poison dart frog to ingest toxic insects and store the toxin harmlessly in its skin rather than letting it get to vulnerable parts of its body. But behavioral adaptations are used against toxins as well. The most common is avoidance, but some animals have actually come up with ways to deal with toxins in another way. However, behavioral adaptations to this often come with the handicap that the animal often still has to deal with the consequences of being around and/or consuming the toxin, be it pain or irritation or an ill feeling of some sort, and the behavior simply mitigates the issue to have no perceivable lasting effect or any severe effects.

 

So no, even if the allergen is indeed bothersome to the Threadtail - and clearly it is to an extent - it would not affect the animal's eating and breeding because it would be considered the natural state of the animal and therefore just part of its regular day-to-day life that is worked in with other basic activities. And it would not actually be suffering by its own standards because it would perceive this as a normal experience. Though I do agree that evolution will probably favor those that have less severe reactions or no allergies at all, and eventually the species will evolve that direction and allow it to potentially live longer and branch out into other environments while retaining its unique defense mechanism. (That's thought to be how animals phsyiologically immune to toxins evolve, actually. See the clownfish example, where evolution has clearly favored innate immunity in some species.)

 

Some of these behaviors are preventative, even when they don't completely eliminate consequences. It's perfectly possible that Threadtails spend time rolling in Dragonberries for preventative measures and treatment measures both. This would help mitigate the problem before it starts, though it will still probably want another coating from the Dragonberries after secretion, too. This is what most animals dealing with such things in the wild would do.

 

And I am well aware of how dogs are affected by skin conditions, but I'm sorry, dogs are an absolutely terrible analogy. This is exactly what I meant by not mistaking the "normal" state of one species for the "normal" state of another. Comparing a dog dealing with an abnormal skin condition to an animal that has to deal with consequences of its normal nature is comparing apples and oranges. Dogs do not deal with this in their normal day-to-day lives in their natural habitat, and they do not have any self-medicating behavioral adaptations for skin conditions. You cannot compare an animal that naturally does not deal with a toxin itself with an animal that naturally does. The Threadtail has clearly evolved a behavioral adaptation to deal with its handicap, and it clearly evolved this handicap in the first place because it came with a greater benefit for survival than it had before - the deadly poison it secretes. So since this is part of its natural state and knows how to treat itself to deal with it, it does not suffer the ill consequences a dog with an allergic skin reaction would. They treat the itch properly, and it never goes beyond that. They do not scratch constantly, they do not break the skin, they do not acquire infections, ect. The only way the dog analogy would work is if you did not provide the Threadtail with its natural behavioral defense mechanism against the allergen - e.i. take away the Dragonberries. But then the Threadtail would not be in its natural state in its natural environment. (This is clearly a very specialized animal that is not very adaptable.)

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I apologize for typos and grammar and such - I'm on my phone

I kind of see your point. But I still think we can't say how an animal experiences things. We only know some about how domesticated animals "see" their environment, let alone wild animals, though I think there can be some things we can guess are similar (like how other canids might experience pain and such based on how dogs do, or other similar mammals. I don't think it would work with fish vs dog though.)

Yes, I can see how an animal born into conditions might experience things differently than an acquired condition, though. 

 

But it I guess we can take the statement about Threadtail and extrapolate info in different directions. I take the "allergic to itself and spends the day rolling in dragonberries to self medicate as a real problem and having bad skin issues or at least leaving them vulnerable to it. You interpret it to be preventative and the skin issues to be minor. actually thinking of them doing it as a preventative measure is pretty neat! But in either case, who knows, cuz it's all made up anyway! Maybe they have a decreased immune response or something so they don't react too badly, or really thick skin, who knows.

 

at least we agree that they might not be very adaptable :)  and I still wonder about the biology/ecology of the "dragonberry". As in is it available to Threadtail all year round? I'm sure Gothi could whip up something for the tame ones!

 

sorey, hard enough to get my point across on a regcomputer, but even harder on my phone and difficulty editing.

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Invisible Tracker Class Dragon Juice

I agree, we can't know what it's like for other species to experience things. But like I said, that's an entirely different topic than anything I discussed at all. All I said was that we do know that what is typical of the animal is...well, typical. The "normal" experience of any creature is what it experiences normally. (We know this just by looking at different human cultures and what they percieve as "healthy." One of my professors once told our a class a story about an island nation where pretty much every person had dysentery, and when given medication for it by outsiders, they eventually stopped taking it because the medication was making them "constipated." Anyway, weird side tangent.)

 

I think when you extroplated from the Threadtail, you took with what you know about animals, which is that ailments are "bad." I took what I know about animals, which is what science says: ailments are relative to the species. And we know skin issues are minor, which is where a lot of this comes from on my end. That isn't speculative at all; that's canonically true. Threadtails are able to thrive as a species and are not shown in the franchise to have any ill skin effects, so skin issues aside from slight passing irritation from the allergen must be minor to non-existent. That's what canon shows us to be true. But anyway, that's the type of science that would justify the canon information given to us.

 

As for the preventative thing, I merely suggested it as a possibility; I don't actually know if that's the reason for their constant tramping in the bushes. But it's a decent explanation and congruent with real animals, and I admit, I like the headcanon now that I've thought of it. :) My point is that this is considered a perfectly typical behavior and experience for a Threadtail that's worked into its normal living activities and considered a normal heatlh state for it.

 

Ooh, ooh, you want to know something cool about Dragonberries that I learned from To Berk and Beyond? Apparently, Tracker Class dragons can't smell Dragonberry juice! So if you coat yourself in that, a Tracker Class dragon will never find you, which makes this a good tactic to hide from dragons so you aren't detected! Eret's the one who teaches the Berkians that, apparently.

 

It also means the Threadtail probably has another "superpower" thanks to its strange allergen-treating behavior; it can't be tracked by dragons!

 

...Jeez, you know, now that I think about it, dragons can't smell the Threadtail, and when other dragons do come upon it and try to fight/eat it, they get a mouth full of poison. Plus it's super fast and can outwit most other dragons. I feel sorry for any other dragon trying to hunt or fight it.

 

Anyway, that's all I know about Dragonberries and, as far as I know, all the franchise has given us on that plant. Not much so far. :/ Hopefully we'll get more in time. Who knows whether the berries are always available. RoB says the Threadtail tramps through Dragonberry bushes, so maybe it just needs the leaves or sap...?

 

I always wondered about tame Threadtails. Could you ride one, or would it be too dangerous? If it can control its poison, I'm sure you could, but if it releases poison as part of a neurological fight/flight response that it has no motor control over, it could just kill its own rider accidentally if it was spooked or angered. But ooh, just imagine if it can secrete poison on only part of its body at a time at will! It could fend off an enemy who simply touched it, and then the rider could wipe out Dragonberry juice from their saddlebag and just pour it on that spot to keep the Threadtail in top shape and focused for the whole battle. It'd be awesome! I need to know how they secrete this poison and how much at a time... So many questions!

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Thornado14
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Joined: 09/27/2014
Excuse me, but may I ask

Excuse me, but may I ask where did you people get the information about DreamWorks approving everything that appears in Rise of Berk? Where was it ever mentioned?
Plus I don't think it was just "some person from DreamWorks" who approved it. No way someone who doesn't work on Dragons would be allowed to say "ok" or approve anything that is from HTTYD.

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WhispertheWolf
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Joined: 03/13/2015
Yes and No

All things Dragons-related must be approved by DreamWorks due to legalities. It doesn't mean they check everything; it just means someone signed off on it. This is true for all games, books, shows, and other offshoots.

 

And yes, it is "some person from DreamWorks" and it is also someone who works on Dragons. It's a person at DreamWorks who is assigned to do something Dragons-related. DreamWorks can move people around on these things, and who happens to be working on things involved in the Dragons franchise can change at different points, Also, someone working in the Dragons franchise can also be working on another DreamWorks franchise at the same time, depending on their position. But you're right, it will be sent to a current Dragons team or person for approval. This still doesn't mean they check everything in terribly meticulous detail. A DreamWorks employee working on Dragons is not always a passionate Dragons fan but an employee doing their job, one that may even change in time, so they won't necessarily keep track of consistency at all times. And it's unlikely with all the approving being done that these are always getting sent to the same person (because if it was, I'd feel very sorry for that poor overwhelmed person).

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gravityfallsfan5
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Joined: 08/02/2014
Accidents Happen

Someone at Dreamworks goofed up. This can be forgiven. But it should be noticed that there was indeed a mistake.

I hope the true Hobblegrunt gets added some magical day. :\